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The New SRAM Eagle Transmission, Upside Down Forks, How To Become A Bike Mechanic & More... Ep. 109 [Podcast]

MTBpodcast · The New SRAM Eagle Transmission, Upside Down Forks, How To Become A Bike Mechanic & More... Ep. 109

On today's podcast, we candidly discuss the new SRAM Eagle T-type Transmission and Stealth brakes as well as Liam's trip to Taiwan before jumping into a classic array of listener questions ranging from how stanchion diameter matters to how to become a bike mechanic and everything in between. Tune in!

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Submit any and all questions to podcast@worldwidecyclery.com

If you would like to read a transcript of the podcast above, continue reading below!

0:01

[Music] ladies and gentlemen welcome to episode

0:08

109 of the MTB podcast presented and hosted by Worldwide Cyclery I am Jared

0:13

I'm Liam and I'm Jeff in this episode we are going to discuss the new SRAM

0:19

transmission and stealth breaks Liam's trip to Taiwan for the Taipei cycle show

0:25

as well as listener questions ranging from the stanchion diameter matter bad

0:30

habits on clipless pedals how to become a bike mechanic and much much more so much more the usual stuff that will

0:37

entertain and educate you mountain bikers to learn even more about mountain bike stuff did you say entertain you get

0:43

that part I think I said entertain you did well we'll we will attempt to entertain that's subjective like all of

0:49

our mountain bike content there's a always a good dose of entertainment value and uh educational value yeah

0:56

speaking some people think it's funny mostly our moms speaking of entertainment value how

1:03

about a sound effect

1:09

this may be just sweet that I was entertained by that you entertain yourself yeah I do perfect

1:17

Jared definitely laughs at his own jokes yeah hey man laughs at everything it's a good way to be if you're not your own biggest fan

1:24

I'm just kidding my girlfriend is my biggest fan and she has proclaimed that many times nice yeah yeah and my mom

1:31

she's got two in your corner yeah thank you nothing when he lived with for 18

1:37

years and the other one you currently lived with yeah oh gosh all right speaking of fun

1:44

srams transmission yeah uh we made a YouTube video on that like many people

1:49

did I think a lot of people have seen this like if you look at all the various YouTube videos and stuff that's going around social medias you know this is

1:56

SRAM so when they come out with a really important Flagship new drivetrain product they kind of do everything in

2:01

their power to make sure every possible person who ever ridden a bike hears about it yeah um I think they succeeded in this one

2:07

definitely and if you haven't heard about it um get out from under that rock yeah no

2:13

they're not under a rock as they're listening to the mountain bike podcast so that's their new source so yeah or they're not good on you yeah yeah good

2:20

on you for not wasting your time on social media or they've heard it a million times and they're like I'm sick of hearing about the same transmission

2:25

[Laughter] it is pretty cool I think people will find it a lot more cool once they ride

2:32

it like it looks good the concept's good doesn't use a derailleur hanger it it's a hard thing to talk about on a podcast

2:37

so if you get a chance and you haven't seen our YouTube video um go to YouTubes and check take a look

2:43

at that but essentially SRAM how many years ago did they come out with udh the universal derailleur I believe three

2:50

yeah three issues ago I thought it was more than that four at the most but I

2:55

believe it was three they might have announced it four years ago but bikes didn't start coming with it till like yeah a bit later on right yeah because

3:02

driller hangers have always been a problem um they're all different fitments for all these different brands and that's a

3:08

total nightmare to begin with and it's kind of just a strange idea and design that was never really that good

3:15

um SRAM decided to say hey why don't we just make a universal one and all of the bike brands can use this you know use

3:21

our design it's it's open here's the information everyone I want to say everyone but a lot of people all the

3:27

prominent Brands almost everyone started adopting this udh Universal derailleur hanger and it works great it was super

3:33

convenient because then there was just a lot less you know different hangers out there uh turns out it was a long-term

3:40

plan for SRAM to then go hey guess what that same design that you made to fit this you udh on your frame now our

3:46

derailleur mounts directly to that so we don't even need the hanger anymore yeah which I'm sure this fan probably told these Brands three four years ago that

3:53

said hey we're gonna make a drivetrain that works to this so yeah if you want it to work have your frame spec the udh

3:58

yeah and I saw somewhere in like a q a where they've been working on the transmission for like six or seven years yeah so they definitely already had that

4:04

in mind yeah it was supposed to come out last year and they just held off because you know yeah yeah

4:11

um but speaking of hangers just quick note I remember being so frustrated trying to get

4:17

hangers out in the normal shop and just looking up Hangers On Wheels manufacturing and trying to match the

4:24

hangers to the one I pulled off this road bike saying yeah anybody who's ever worked in my shopping knows the

4:30

derailleur hanger Nightmare and then Brands would change from like model year and it'd be like why did you change like

4:35

you like the spec was barely even different but it doesn't work anymore so like the 2009 rebate doesn't work for

4:41

the 2010 Ruby and like and so on and just I just remember having a hanger wall of just hangers yeah well so Wheels

4:48

manufacturing for whatever reason decided to take that challenge on years and years ago and they they machine

4:55

basically every hanger for every bike ever and have it in this massive database

5:01

um and they were they were shipping these which we had one I'm sure you did too these like these massive posters oh

5:08

yeah they were probably three feet by four feet a poster with all over their hangers and and they were printed in

5:14

actual size so when you're a bike mechanic you had whatever hanger from whatever bike and you could go to it and like wow put it up there as if it was a

5:21

puzzle piece is this one is it that one is it four two nine seven oh yeah no no no it's three two seven eight I think

5:26

it's three two seven eight like someone would be the same but have like a little Notch it's like oh it was crazy that's

5:32

absurd yeah it makes you uh Wonder yeah well gosh why would anybody want to get rid of the trailer hanger it's like yeah

5:38

well not only I mean not just get rid of it but like make a universal noise so

5:43

nice like yeah as soon as I came out I was like wow that's a standard that everyone will get behind yeah and now

5:48

moving forward your derailleur mounts directly to the frame it's like this incredible probably should have been done at the beginning of like the

5:55

Inception of the bicycle like let's make one standard part to hold the dirt yeah into the bike not like everybody come up with your own yeah it was hard because

6:01

there was a lot of different axle configurations that's true that's what made it harder you know bikes came from Road and they had those QR axles and

6:08

then they had the 12 by 142 and then 112 by 142. you also have mountain bikes

6:15

which need a more robust hanger and road bikes which are worried about weight and don't really need a robust one so but now a lot of road bikes are coming with

6:22

udh too right I mean starting to I want to say a lot but I'd say they're trickling yeah yeah nice yeah so sram's

6:29

new transmission obviously the most common question that appeared everywhere

6:34

is that the the derailleur you know because it sort of looks like a vice grip a little bit clamps directly onto

6:40

the frame everyone thought well the whole point of that hanger was so that when you crash on the right side of your bike your hanger bends and you don't

6:46

damage your frame or your derailleur and you just damage your 25 hanger so that's

6:51

kind of like the the reason the derailleur hanger existed now it's gone and the driller mounts directly there

6:56

everyone thought well I'm either going to a damage my derailleur or damage my frame or both so this is a terrible

7:02

design uh well it turns out yes Ram thought of that um that's not really ever going to

7:08

happen yeah um you guys made a I was on vacation when I saw the video and I was

7:13

like yeah you guys know I was I was very proud of you guys you made that video whose foot was that Trevor he was

7:19

jumping up and down on that yeah um he was like it was all of his way just to be clear like people like oh you gotta build onto something like he was

7:25

Ginger like no he was full on all of his way he's like probably almost 200 pounds like jumping on it and and then yeah

7:32

like it just doesn't afterwards yeah yeah and I was like okay in my head I'm thinking if you tried this with any

7:37

trailer you're like it's screwed it's destroyed yeah like your finger is probably broken yeah yeah so not only is

7:43

that derailleur assembly stronger but the frames are also designed around a thickness that the udh calls for yeah so

7:51

there's also you know a thick piece of alloy or carbon that's you know is in between this derailleur as well so it's

7:57

kind of fully optimized all the way around yeah but not only that like people are saying oh well you know it'll

8:04

snap my chains or whatever it's like actually isn't it like the load if you hit something isn't it being transferred hypothetically into the axle because

8:11

it's basically interfaced directly with their axle threads yeah yeah like yeah

8:17

well the axle runs through it right yeah so it's gonna transfer any physical Force to the axle instead of to your chainstay so like the idea that it's

8:24

gonna like snap your chainstay from hitting your drayline rock is just kind of like yeah yeah there's no way yeah

8:30

I'm just gonna say it's extremely robust and yeah you know most crashes aren't gonna hurt this is a 99.8 of crashes are

8:39

gonna be absolutely fine yeah obviously better than a hanger right everything's

8:44

breakable so it's not unbreakable but yeah but um we got a lot of comments on that and I was like listen

8:50

we got a lot of armatures armchair engineers in the audience here like like this stuff is legit like it is robust it

8:57

is strong they've obviously tested it like they've been testing this for years it's not like they just come out there and they're like oh you guys tried out

9:02

let us know how it works you know they've like been um proving this stuff in the field Nino shooter shorter

9:08

shooter shooter shorter I don't know how to say his name um anyways Nino uh the

9:15

goat of cross-country mountain bike racing multi-multi-world champion actually crashed his bike on the right

9:22

side slid out at the last year's World Champs picked up his bike and kept riding and it was a pretty decent crash

9:29

that you probably would have had bad shifting and or needed a bike swap and he had that derailleur on it

9:36

prototype form and it was fine so nice real world tests yeah seriously I mean

9:41

what more proof do you need yeah one of the championship that's pretty good I think that's one of those things that people are gonna eventually I was like

9:47

oh yeah once I see it in person they push on it they see how it's designed they see how it connects to the axle I

9:52

mean yeah carbon mountain bike wheels those are gonna break yeah if you did a lot did

9:57

they've gone around carbon frames frames everyone 29 inch frames are basically made out of paper mache for like six

10:03

years until they're like oh okay they work I got one now 29 29 smile Michaels those things can't

10:10

handle a downhill load yeah well guess how many World Cups those have one yeah so it's just like everything and you

10:16

know yeah um true there will be early adopters and then eventually everybody's just gonna be like all right yeah we

10:21

were wrong or they were not going to say that yeah they're just gonna be like yeah I was wrong I will say

10:26

when it first was like announced and coming I was like cool it's a new design you know mounts directed a hanger

10:33

eliminates variables there's no limit screws which is really awesome like yeah no higher no setup

10:39

so it takes away a lot of setup yes with 12 speed was extremely sensitive yeah

10:44

yeah um more so than like people realize and you had to put the B tension uh

10:49

gauge on undersag for it to shift right um so I thought that was cool but I wasn't expecting transmission to be like

10:58

oh wow I need this on my bike you know it's just like yeah that's cool if I have a udh bike you know slap it on then

11:04

yeah wrote it and it's like oh this like kind of changes the way you ride a bike a little bit yeah you know especially in

11:10

a race situation for sure yeah because of Shifting under load yeah yeah which I don't think we got to necessarily not

11:16

just yet but that's what I was kidding Jeff yeah because it all connects wow

11:21

you win with the game changer before you explained why he was going there it's game changing

11:27

because of the shifting under load you might say that yourself yeah

11:32

there was oh man I gotta say it there was a srams sort of marketing pitch deck

11:38

of this whole drivetrain system that they sent out uh it there's just no way it was put together by mountain bikers

it was like some PR agency that just tossed in like they just looked up most

most game they typed into Google most game changing adjectives and they just used every single one over and over and

over oh we were just cracking up reading this thing it was yeah it was like it was written by somebody who just I don't know graduated art school and they are

using every single synonym in the book yeah yeah dude it was like the world is

changed as you know it yeah it's a good mountain bike drive train but we didn't

just solve global warming with a snapping fingers or anything that's how it was presented yeah it was presented like that it was really funny it's like

yeah it's really good but um we have not solved the world hunger calm down calm down it's good it is good

but but the shifting under load is very impressive it is wild yeah I mean it immediately puts a smile of Amazement on

your face when you ride that thing and you can just shift unbelievably perfectly as hard as you're possibly

pedaling yeah over and over and over again I was writing it this morning and just like shifting mid switch back and

just shifting well shouldn't yeah yeah I was just like having so much fun just like it's like doing something that you know

is wrong but like it works yeah you're like deliberately abusing it yeah and having fun doing it yeah and it just

it's like kind of Massacre yeah it doesn't skip a beat yeah skip a gear or nothing it's just right there I'm also

excited to see how it works on ebike too just because I've heard it like even more convenient to be able to do that on

anybody right like I mean I've personally snapped a chain on e-bike just from you know a bad shift or whatever but yeah and it's harder to

time your shifts on an e-bike too because you got that whole sort of delay before well the Hub engages in the delay

before the motor engages so it's just more challenging to time shifts perfectly and you don't really need to

time shifts on this like you can just pedal away and push the shift buttons and then there it goes totally so well a

couple important things to note obviously this whole system only works on bikes that have udh or design for the

udh and then it's currently only in Access so Wireless electronic premium

level XO XX and xxsl yep so just the

high-end stuff yeah which is typically historically how stream is released this stuff they released like the two

Flagship versions of their new drivetrain and then it you know trickles down to GX at a later Point yeah

um you know will this come into GX and when who knows um will it ever come with

a cable I don't know I mean I think they're pretty adamant if the FAQ said

this is going to be a wireless drivetrain moving forward forever only yeah I mean they could make a obviously

a cabled derailleur to mount but I don't think they could do the whole no limits no B tension thing with a cable yeah

that makes sense they might be able to but you'd still have to adjust the cable and micro adjust it yeah so that makes

sense which is okay it's like honestly I think the coolest part personally for me is just like the you know how it's how

it's mounted which leads to the perfect shifting you know it's like yeah that's that's what I'm after

um but yeah I also did see that five Dev is making chainrings for it as I saw him

post it today which is kind of cool yeah so that way eventually you probably don't need to buy the whole kit

well what's yeah what's so different about the chainring um it uses a different chain roller

diameter for the 12 speed versus old Eagle so so it needs a proprietary chain

ring yeah I didn't know that yeah so that's why also the cranks are different yeah

and cassette are proprietary to itself

but they did say like if you wanted to put

that chain ring chain and cassette on Old Eagle it would work it just might not be as optimized for the shift ramps

and the timing and everything right but not the other way around but not the other way like you couldn't put an old chain on a new cassette or a chainring

yeah the the whole you know drivetrain cassette chainring has to be together no

matter what right um so yeah and it's also only available as a five piece kit currently which meaning

cassette chain chain well crank and chain ring derailleur and shifter pod

can't can't buy a la carte just yet yeah which will happen eventually just like it did when they initially released

access and yeah they'll have to offer spares too soon and like you got to get

a new chain you got to get a new cassette parts for your trailer if you do I was gonna say the derailleur is now

like I don't I've seen photos that are broken down like 10 yeah 12 15 parts that you can replace every individual

part now fully replaceable which you couldn't on access before you can only get like pulley wheels in the outer cage

or most trailers for that matter yeah you can only replace like a cage and that's about it so now you can replace a

lot of this derailleur so that's cool yeah nice yeah they did a good job they kind

of thought of everything but I'm not surprised it's Ram yeah there's a reason SRAM is a massive prominent mountain

bike drivetrain manufacturer because they know what they're doing dare say taking over the mountain bike drivetrain

world yeah yeah I actually this was in February of 2020 I went to srams Germany facility in

Frankfurt um it was like a large uh I guess what was that that was a

there was a conference for like srams large Distributors ironically srams

largest five largest retailers in the world are the same size as their Distributors so you get to go if you're

one of them and we are so that's how I went and while I was there and that's where they make that's where they

manufacture and do all the prototyping for all of their drivetrain development and it was unbelievable

um like I I was shocked at the level of sophistication and the amount of tools

and equipment and various things they had there and I was kind of Blown Away I was like well this feels a little bit more like NASA for mountain bike Drive

trains like wow seriously who's paying for all this I guess we are because we all ride ceram

Drive trains that's true I remember you saying there's just like a you know a setup on you know being moved by a

machine that was just sitting there running a chain up and down the cassette for like your like 150 hours or

something yeah so it was like a glass box and there was is a cassette like a whole drivetrain system in there and it

was it was motorized so the cranks were just spinning and then the chain was just shifting all the way up and all the way down and all the way up and all the

way down and there was probably four different cameras pointed at it and then all these different lasers pointed at it and there was five of these glass boxes

they're like oh yeah those just run perpetually and then they like that's what they're using to measure the wear

and like analyze what it looks like after a thousand miles versus ten thousand After Twenty Thousand just like what is going on here it was so badass

yeah it was nuts and it's like well that's just what it takes you know like that's what it takes to build premium level mountain bike stuff and continue

to make it even better than it already is which is already pretty good so yeah Innovation is pretty cool

Innovation is cool man um yeah so SRAM transmission they also did so just for clarification it's

called T-Type T Dash type so like or it's called transmission it's kind of or

transmission yeah there's a little transitional Eagle Transmission which is abbreviated to ET

yeah they didn't really yeah the naming is a little confusing because it's not really a transmission to be I mean I did

see a funny comment that said should I buy SRAM transmission or replace a transmission on my Ford F-150 they're

the same price [Laughter] that is pretty good yeah but they they

did a good launch with that in the sense that uh all the prominent uh Distributors and retailers have the

stuff in stock so like we were able to you know participate in the launch of the product and have all of it in stock

and still do so it's like if you're frothing for the latest and greatest absolute best mountain bike drivetrain

um yeah we got it which is cool totally for often bro I'm froth and if you're also a quick disclaimer or just a note

from me uh if you've been on a worldwide Cyclery website in the last two weeks

three weeks and the filter menu like all those various filters on the left hand side didn't work or were missing or were

broken or looked wrong uh I've been working on that tirelessly because it broke out of nowhere because some weird

API issue behind the scenes and he literally hasn't slept in two weeks um or the www

well that's a whole other problem that should hopefully no one figures that one out there's running a running a website

at the size of ours is quite challenging and complex when you're on the budget of a mountain bike business

um you know one day Bezos will step in and help us out but until then we're gonna have a few glitches on the website

and if you honestly if you find them please send us an email because um it's really helpful to know if like

something on our website's broken I don't know do you want Bezos to step in have you used Amazon and silver Central

Amazon does suck [Laughter]

I wonder if people remember that when they were in the headlines for not allowing their Amazon delivery drivers

to take a pee break and they all were peeing in bottles everyone's like this is blasphemy and then every guy who's

been on a road trip's like I've been in bottles all the time what's the big deal there's a difference between wanting to

not being allowed yeah that's that is that's a valid point yeah yeah it's a valid point but uh I think you were

alluding to the fact that they also SRAM also released stealth breaks yeah the stealth breaks I think they were a

little bit overshadowed because the drivetrain was so cool and yeah well drive training to me the drivetrain was

a lot more notable and interesting the stealth breaks were like all right cool it's like a slight revision to the lever body

um I was gonna say in all honesty it's not really new yeah they just kind of moved the master cylinder close to The

Handlebar reworked it a little reworked it the internals for the most part all the same the brake pads are the same

they did away with G2 now in the stealth breaks and now they just have level four piston or code they have

two levels of each yeah that's kind of it is it cool colors the same G2 pad the

level level four piston uses the same G2 pad correct interesting yeah

so better update the titles of the brake pads on the website yeah note to self

well I'm not really the one in charge of that so no to Pat or whoever does that needs a redirect yeah nice all right

yeah those are cool whatever yeah the the the cables exit the lever body way

more directionally towards the handlebar um which even I'd say parallel with the

handlebar yeah it's a good way to describe it on a podcast I guess almost almost slightly towards it yeah I guess

it kind of does we'll put it this way if if you're running a handlebar bag

I.E bike packing or something or you run number plates often because you race a lot this is actually a really convenient

design so or have stealth or excuse me headset cable routing yeah or if your bike has headset cable routing

um this is a way better sort of design for the angle of the hose to come out of the brake lever yeah towards your you

know if you don't do any of those things and it kind of doesn't look that great yeah it's probably not even really in my

opinion yeah that's been a good I don't know Jared stopped on my house last night and I was spent a good 30

minutes just figuring out how to run my cables on the new brakes

I don't know yeah I mean it's it's to have better routing with internal

headset cable routing yeah but I want to know who is who's pushing the charge for

this the headset cable routing they were just fine somebody is the Illuminati

yeah for the last behind the scenes here the last three to five years tube and Tube internal cable routing has been

pretty good yeah and our company even Yeti their new stuff the way they tighten it up it's so secure and no

noise it's a really good design yeah we don't need to go through the headset so any Bike company that's listening yeah

to our little podcast please don't do it or just go ahead and read any of the literally infinite number of comments

all over the Internet amongst mountain bikers it to tens of thousands just saying stop doing that yeah why why are

Brands doing right Brands designing it yeah I really don't know there's no reason for that I saw a common Saul's tempo

did that and then they came out with another bike that they went back and they they're not

doing the headset yeah well it's this kind of is feels like super boost remember when everyone's like oh super goose is going to be a thing and a few

Brands did it now they're like oops Yeah no one else did it everyone hated it never mind that hat that's happening

stupid yeah um yeah the tempo though is more of a short

travel XC right maybe that's where they're going where the other bike they teased was a Enduro bike yeah um the

forestall has internal headset cable routing um and I think it's better than most

um some of them go like through the stem some go through spacers and others just go right into like the dust cover so

there's also inconsistencies there yeah um I haven't had an issue but it is a little bit of pain if you want to swap

brakes yeah but yeah or a little harder to work on yeah yeah true well yeah yeah

speaking of a transmission speaking of uh bike stuff William how was Taiwan and the bike show the Taipei

cycle show the Taipei Cycle Show in Taiwan um it was really cool yeah for starters

that's that's explain what it is yeah so this is the Taipei the Taipei cycle show is more of a kind of vendor and

Manufacturing Show versus your classic sea otter or what you know used to be

inner bike where brands are on display showing their product there was some Brands there but it's more or less the

the manufacturers and the vendors who make products for the bike very much an

industry event yeah so people who actually are manufacturing products um utilizing various Asian manufacturers

you go and you meet and you talk about designs and look at stuff and yeah yeah so I I went mainly on behalf of Trail

one um and just meeting with everyone I've been talking to over the last three to four

years that during covid we've never met they really like it when people go over

there and meet them it's you know big respect thing to them um so it's cool to do that and just meet

all these people that make our Trail one products uh as well as just look at new projects and look at new you know areas

we can go Trail one so yeah super cool and the Revel bikes guys were

uh kind enough to let me tag along and show me the ways and uh yeah it's really cool yeah it's pretty sweet and add

context um Trail one is a brand that we co-founded and spun up

how long ago a year and a half ago uh November of 21 we launched that yeah the idea was like to have a good Outlet to

build various mountain bike products that we've always wanted and design them the way that we want to design them and

we you know tagged along with uh bkxc Brian Kennedy um he's doing a lot of Storytelling and

we have a whole component to the brand of giving back to Trail networks for every product that sells and then it's also just been a really good outlet for

myself and Liam to do product development and design grips that we wanted and stem that we wanted and uh

we're going to continue to do that with more stuff so if you guys have anything that you want to see Trail one make let

us know or just like random questions about manufacturing of that stuff because it's been a really fun project for us to do

um yeah we're enjoying it I just think that you know more businesses should make good premium level product but also

have like a good philanthropic element to that business in general so it's worked well for trail one and Liam does

a ton of the product development himself which is why he went to the Taipei Cycle Show on biafa trail one yeah yeah so it

was really cool just seeing you know these Brands and kind of talking about how stuff's made and just hearing more

behind the scenes industry stuff that uh isn't really told which is super cool and interesting um

you know how to sign a lot of ndas so can't speak too much on that stuff but uh man can talk but yeah it was really

cool and eye-opening and it got me really motivated for some projects uh that's right to start with Trail one so

did you see anything uh mind-blowing that's gonna revolutionize our ride that's what I was gonna ask him

well transmission was there swim had a big Booth oh that is game changing revolutionary Product Where It's Gonna

you know completely change the way we ride bikes world changing yeah wow I guess uh my question would be so going

there did you you know we have talked about the theory of sort of product Innovation Plateau bike's not really

getting all that much better just like small gains did you is that theory more confirmed or less confirmed it's

definitely a little more confirmed not to be super pessimistic but anything especially this year coming reality is

not always pessimistic it's just reality it's just coming out of the covet boom and into where we are now in kind of

this lull um yeah it seemed like a little bit of innovation and then just a little bit of uh you know

just a little bit of unknown so yeah yeah all righty yeah I mean it's gonna be tough to top you know transmission

release like in terms of innovation this year we'll see about that oh see if any of our listener questions

have to do with oh that's right let's jump into those and now a word from our sponsors

hey guys Jeff here I know I promised the MTB podcast would stay ad-free and that I would never sell out but uh I think I

did add a disclaimer that if somebody paid us an exorbitant amount of money I would sell out and that's actually happened so here's a legitimately paid

ad hi I'm Jeff from Jeff valid bank if you've recently lost your money in a banking Fiasco we'd love for you to

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on your new checking account and a free fridge magnet fridge magnet requires 299 shipping handling charge and now back to

the show wow speaking of good points I think this first question I mean it's

something that I've thought about for a while but I didn't read anything I never really am prepared perfect because I want you to be flying by the seat of

your pants okay if mostly everything on a bike is measured in metric including road bike wheels and tires wire mountain

bike wheels and tires measured in inches uh it doesn't make any sense then that's

that's a super valid question I'll tell you exactly why because I looked into it oh God it's because

mountain bikes originated in the U.S be and so for that reason we measure things

in inches it's literally that easy yeah well the imperial system makes about as much sense as uh

I don't know Dipping Dots out of a leather shoe yeah two two cans living in Tuscaloosa

Alabama but yeah that is exactly why it's because mountain bikes come out of America and we use that stupid imperial

system that's a risky climb you just made no it is it's on a website

Wikipedia you know I'm just saying there's gonna be 100 people from Germany like no no no

Joe was invented here that's what I like it just

which is a pretty reliable source so it's pretty reliable and honestly I mean what what is there a dispute like

mountain bikes originated and you know what uh I just think that Marin County and what Crested Butte you know all

these places where people start mountain biking so the bicycle didn't originate in America which is why it's mostly in

metric right almost entirely in metric right but the mountain bike yes I mean it makes sense I guess and the road

wheel is 700c there's a lot of other weird questions you could ask you because like 700c is a road wheel

actually 700 centimeters it's not and then why what even is it 650 B that's

zero why is it also not C why isn't six there is a 650c no not bike historians

we are modern day mountain bikers next question next question why are some Forks flipped upside down because they

want to be oh okay next question is that meaning uh

Yesterday by the way we we custom built a Banshee Titan oh man that is that I

love it that is one bike you love it yeah I wrote it in Sedona which I didn't really get the best test of it in Sedona because sedona's such weird there's no

perfect riding Sedona yeah that's true yeah yeah

I thought it was hilarious because everyone was just glowing that was the best drill that was the best drill and I

said that was the least sedona-like Trail in this entire place like the most and everyone loved it it's like the most

desert SoCal trailers yeah yeah downhill yeah um but we didn't even talk about

the Sedona bike Festival no wait well we were there I mean because the last podcast we did was the day we arrived

yeah um yeah we still had a good time really great time it was a fun Festival if you want to go I highly recommend it it's a

fun place yeah hopefully they move it to April so I actually heard a room where they're moving into like uh sorry August

oh wow

the inverted Fork yeah so intend intend that uh I I'm still perplexed on intend

as a company maybe uh we could get their CEO on the podcast at some point yes what they make is just unbelievable in

terms of suspension they just came out with those goods brakes yeah my God breaks dude

that's good as good as RAM breaks are I was building that bike going you know these brakes

just aren't um but I will say those SRAM codes they're

so powerful they're amazing yeah because I mostly ride that Revel Ranger which I have those g2s on which is my most

commonly written trail bike that I use and the g2s I think work great and I enjoy them but those codes are like wow

nice love I have to be careful like I have to like switching from those bike to bike I'm like well I really got it

and you do have those crazy in 10 rotors which might make them even more powerful yeah true yeah so that bike has the

intent for it it's an inverted Fork yeah um I did notice though uh a little bit

more Flex huh on that fork interesting in weird situations so there's that one

um on that one Trail which we call tricycle Trail yeah and water tower these are all like weird irrelevant terms for

everybody but Newbury Park locals giant Trails there's a you can do that triple yeah or you can like but yesterday it

was kind of windy so I was doing just I would land in a manual uh like basically double into a manual then the last

little roller well if you try to make the triple now just hurts because the kids like screwed with that yeah so yeah and it's just kind of sketching the

wind yeah that too um so I was just doing the double under in a manual and when I would like land on the back wheel

in a manual I could kind of feel a little I mean like kind of like touch yeah yeah

but but so I don't know it is weird right so that inverted Fork there's no Arch there yeah but it's supposed to be

it's supposed to be hypothetically stiffer because the crown is thicker and the and the stances but there is no

Crown there's no right that's true there's no Crown in the middle but like but that Flex is probably good in other

situations that you don't notice but it probably tracks I know that's that was one of those things that it was it was so negligible I kind of thought like huh

I felt that but would I have felt it the same way if I was on a fox 38 or a rock

shock Zeb and even though I felt it didn't matter yeah I don't know so I'd have to do more back-to-back testing but

either way that suspension on that bike that intense stuff because I have that rear shock too I was just blown away I was like oh man this bike and it is air

quotes flipped upside down yeah um on the bottom yeah I couldn't stop like thinking about how nice that's just

like how good that suspension worked and how just unbelievably amazing it looked and then thinking how just don't even

want to it's it's expensive you know so it's like of course my Ferrari looks good

yeah you should buy one yourself peasant you know I don't know I just have this

like weird dichotomy I had like should I tell people how good this is because it's like I don't know uh yeah oh yeah

I'm just being honest with the whole situation I think it's one of those things it was so good though people are curious floating on a cloud because it's

like you obviously look at a Ferrari Porsche whatever like you know it's fast it has it has like a vegetation yeah but

like this stuff it's like it's kind of new right it's like relatively new to the our world yeah so people like wow like is it better than for the Ferrari

or the Porsche yeah like I mean if if budget is not of your concern um then yeah I would I would ride that

suspension so there you go yeah there you go but I also like rare Boutique

off-the-wall Brands and Nintendo's absolutely yeah the Pinnacle of that type of brand so but we actually try to

answer the question um what was the question again why why are they upside down upside down and

relevant terms to mountain bike suspension a lot of motive almost all motive Force are flipped upside down the

oil rest on the seals which gives you better lubrication so that's a big part

of it but I think on the Mountain Bike World from the consensus is from like

RockShox tried it with the rs1 a couple years ago they just can't get the weight and the stiffness to balance

for mountain bike setup mics are harder because of weight yeah

thing so I think that's like the general I don't know if you fox tried it a DH a

DHL yeah the athertons were rotting it and there was all sorts of spy shots it never went to production but it was a

prototype Fox inverted downhill Fork um yeah yeah and never it never went to

production so I don't know yeah mountain bikes struggle with it because of the weight limitation that's more meaningful

and then what the Manitou Dorado that's yeah people love that floor people raved by the four years ago but kind of never

went further so yeah and I mean downhill is just a sort of a niche category on the mountain bike scene to begin with

that sounds like F1 anyways so yeah yeah well there you go why are some flipped upside down because

yeah for some reasons and they feel like it we got more Fork questions to design

is superior other than wait right correct yeah there you go speaking of forks speaking of forks is there a

noticeable difference between stanchions sizes for example Nino shirter won the XC World Cups with the 35 millimeter

stanchion Sid and Brandon seminic won World Rebel Rampage also a 35 millimeter extensions on his boxer

how is this possible that was not a part of the question but I had marketing just you know makes a little uh well first

thing the boxer is a dual Crown so there's a bunch of added stiffness there yeah

um so it's almost hard to compare them and then the stanchion thickness is going to be different the lower leg

assembly thickness is going to be different thickness of the stanchion correct instead of just the whole

overall diameter together um yeah the OD is the same right outer

diameter but the ID the inner diameter is going to be uh basically smaller on the boxer because

it is going to require more stiff a stiffer chassis yeah yeah that makes

sense um boxer also has a 20 mil axle all the trail bikes at 15 right

um yeah there's a lot of differences going on here I mean typically I guess if you you know if you look at Fox's

line it's very clear the the smaller diameter stanchions the 32 is on the xcn and the 40s on the downhill end and then

the 34 36 and 38 are in between right so it's very chronological makes a lot more logical sense

um it's just easier to sort of understand so you know a smaller stanchion is lighter weight uh it's

flexier but that matters less if there's less travel and it's important if you

want it to be light in this bike channel one at flexier you don't want yeah yeah

they need some level of flex there um so yeah it's all just it's all use case dependent

um Fox is mine Fox's lineup makes a lot more sense in that regard for like you run a 32 it's their that's their

lightest Fork it's made for cross country it's the shortest travel Fork they have um well excluding the gravel suspension

situation but it does we're talking about bikes here yeah and then the 40 is the longest travel Fork they have so the

longer the travel gets the more you require stiffness the more you require various other things and yeah it just

makes like foxes line up when you look at it 32 34 36 38 40. it's like oh okay

this all makes sense 32 is XC 40 is DH all these other guys in the middle are somewhere else in the middle yeah

um where it gets more confusing is rockshot because they don't separated as cleanly I guess yes because

they have that sit ultimate which is an XC Fork but it's gets used as a trail

bike ultimate that's the 32 mil to make it even more confusing yes

the race day is the better damper oh yeah and more confusing yep yeah and then they're playing with wall

thicknesses and it's a big difference in axle between that and then you have a pike lyric Zab boxer going from yeah the

shores travel too but then it's like they go well I mean I don't know you've probably seen Black Box uh boxers out

there that are probably 38 mil or 40 or whatever yeah they have a spot they haven't said that they haven't released

those but yeah it's gonna make more sense eventually because it's going to progress to like yeah 35 mil 32 35 and

38 for the Zeb and then whatever for the downhill Fork so like most things right it's just all related to your use case

yeah and if your use case is cross-country and you want something lighter weight um yeah you're going to have a smaller

diameter fork and a heavier more durable longer travel bigger station yeah let's

answer the original question there is absolutely a noticeable difference between extension sizes

depending on your use case yeah albeit it can be very confusing if you don't know all of the nuances between the 35

mil stanchions sitting that there's a five mil stanchion box for sure yeah but yeah like for instance just to go like

black and white if you put whatever a 32 or 34 and then you put a 38 on your bike like that you'll you'll definitely notice it I mean it's a quick reference

what Forks are on your bikes right now um let's see I have a fox 34 130

millimeter on my El Jefe hardtail and then I have a 160 millimeter Fox 36 on

my SB 140 my Yeti s140 yep I've got that intent Fork on mine uh which is inverted

and I don't even know what the tension diameter is do you guys no no who cares who cares is legit

I don't know the travel it's 160 ones yeah I think it's 170. I think it's amazing um and then I have the the sit

ultimate on my Revel Ranger which is 35 mil but like a really lightweight 35 mil yeah the lightest weight 35 miles what's

on your black slam um on my sp-120 I have a fox 36 at 140

mil or no 34 sorry 34 at 140 mil on my

Revel rail 2 9 I have a rock shocks lyric at 160 mil

on my Forest Hall Siri on I have a Zeb at 170 mil

30 you're gonna have to cut it there because we don't have all day okay and I have a box and I have a box on my

Crestline oh bonus what I have the fox gravel Fork

to slap on the gravel bike yeah once in a while that's right I saw you putting that on your bike and I was like man gravel

bikes or suspension forks come on opens up yeah splitting hairs just splitting hairs big grouts dude hairs so does my

gravel bike with flat bars that opens up routes yeah get a fork on it then you'll be cool routes yeah they'll have a hard

time yeah but I mean bikes are about splitting

areas to some extent Yeah Yeah from the outsider's perspective someone would be like you have a light trail bike and a

downhill bike and then a gravel bike aren't you splitting hairs there like oh yeah but yeah big hairs yeah in my

opinion I don't have a lot of hairs so I just split them on my chest hairs

speaking of building bikes this is an interesting I don't really get this question yeah I got it I got it

what would be your overall value bike build no budget limit but simply the highest miles per dollar the no budget

limit is the part of that question that's confusing so just remove that so I think what what the question is is

what would be your overall value bike build meaning uh uh meaning like what would it take to

give you a great bike with the most amount of smiles oh I see what you mean where is it diminishing returns on

Smiles um yeah you gotta to me I don't know how to I'd have to like add this up in a

retail sense but to me if I were to build a bike to give me the most miles

per dollar it'd be aloe frame alloy wheels GX drivetrain

really nice GPS access uh no just mechanical mechanical

um if we're just trying to get budget right but have the best miles per dollar I'd have all that I would go really nice

suspension so like you know top of the line Rock shocks would be my choice also a little bit more affordable than some

and really nice brakes same code breaks yeah um I'd even run alloy bar stem and oh I'd

run really nice tires like you know Max's yeah tires or whatever yeah yeah I like that honestly I'd probably agree

with the exception I'd probably run Fox because that's just my personal preference and so I've been running for

years now have you ever had a RockShox bike uh how does Zeb on my S150 for a while but then yeah we put the coil in

it so it wasn't really like a true Zeb anymore but yeah I've yeah I just like to stuff right now having for a

while yeah both really good yeah but uh that's yeah honestly that's where I would go if I was gonna go value yeah I

probably do performance Elite because I don't need kishima well yeah yeah save 100 bucks yeah

I would say um alloy frame is totally acceptable as long as the suspension design is good

yeah that's what matters online more than yeah carbon or alloy is just almost negligible now yeah it is

um so I'm totally totally fine with a good alloy frame uh yeah then beyond

that like totally fine with Alloy rims I think that's great I would like uh a good high engagement Hub on there um

at like an I9 Enduro s yeah exactly yeah the 54 points or

judgment or greater oh yeah DT Swiss yeah yeah I'm running the XM 1700s alloy

Ram 350 Hub yeah 54 54 yeah 54 is as low

as I would go yeah uh and then hmm yeah what else I

I don't know if I could do GX I mean you could do EXO one cassette you could compromise I could do a GX derailleur

but I would need an at least an EXO shifter shifter the feel gives me the smile I will give

that to you 100 the feel to me gives me the smile yeah so if I'm talking like I'm once I'm trying to buy smiles here

like yeah that's what's gonna make me smile so yeah I gotta have the nicer shifter just for the the feel on there

um yeah and then of course good suspension matters and uh reliable dropper Post Yeah and

I don't know I think that's about it I don't think you got to go too crazy no but oh we do

here we are because we can oh awesome I just named off how many forks I have so

[Laughter] oh my gosh

um speaking of bikes do you think modular bikes will ever be more common such as what gorilla gravity is doing

so there are many modular as front triangle with different rear ends right or different travel configurations yeah

I personally don't really think so um I think you're compromising in certain areas to do that

yeah I mean I would agree and I also think it's almost like

I don't know there's two different ways you could look at it it could also like potentially cannibalize your other bike sales right like if you have a long

travel bike but you want a short travel shorter travel bike then you could just sell the links then that would take away

the sale of another bike or then you're just keeping people in your ecosystem and they're buying more of your parts that you're producing like

to just change their own bike well the the push and pull here and the compromise is

economics and writer preference but there's kind of a third part to it right so I'll look at it this way you have

what does the writer want then you have what makes economic sense to produce and

um I guess there's two parts but the Rider part what does the writer want I think

most Riders at large if I were to guess a percentage I would say 80 percent

um don't really need to get super in the weeds with this stuff of like oh I want this right angle and this chain stay

length this bottom bracket height like I just don't think it's necessary I'd say 80 don't and 95 shouldn't yeah yeah I

would agree I would agree yeah and then there's a lot of people you know there's a there's a cohort of people who uh you

know probably don't need to go that into the weeds but they would be the first people to click and order a custom Geo

bike yeah I think they ordered the right thing for themselves and then be like I don't know what I did

um so I don't know there's always that right so there's the majority of mountain bikers there's amazing products

out there right now the bikes that work make economical sense to make you know they don't always have you know not able

to custom tune your seat tube angle and head to bangle but you don't need to like yeah bike companies have figured

this stuff out and it's gonna ride great and you're gonna enjoy it then there's a cohort of guys who want to mess with that stuff that probably shouldn't be

but you know it's fun so like that's all or not right yeah why not Tinkers will Tinker yeah and then there's then

there's the small percentage of elite level Racers um that are doing it for very specific

use cases and can notice the difference and have a reason to have those changes

um so it's kind of all over the place so yeah I don't know I mean it's it is interesting right you look at Atherton bikes it's kind of doing that or you can

do like the custom geodes sort of maybe not I mean that's I think there's a lot of questions different though in the

fact that like you're going the custom route but Guerrilla gravity uses one front triangle and it swaps out the rear end

for different travel yeah modular route yeah so that's why I said I think you

compromise things as far as like frames uh stiffness or Flex

um or Aesthetics because like if you wanted a shorter reach on a gorilla gravity you've got the steer tube all the way at the back of that giant head

too and it's like yeah it looks ugly yeah and I would agree and then you know you have I mean a lot of people think it

looks ugly as ever so yeah is that modular yeah is that economic sense because they only need one front triangle sure but like does it

aesthetically look good not in my opinion yeah really so yeah I mean I agree and also um

yeah and I think personally if I'm like riding my bike and I want you know it to

be better on more gravity oriented Trails versus something else I'm gonna just like swap out my tires yeah you

know and like I don't want to go and mess with the links and take my whole bike apart and I don't think most people

should I mean I'm even on like opinion on none of my bikes have Geo adjust or headset adjusts like yeah

you know I just choose a bike that fits relatively close to what I like right messing with that stuff you know

you start messing with leverage ratios or reach or wheelbase and you get in the ways like Jeff said yeah yeah so it's

like pick your bike and just ride it everywhere yeah change your tires if you want to build it yeah if you want it

better for whatever or just buy more bikes there you go it's almost you know

what's funny is that the the way I think about bikes which I don't think I'm too far down the rabbit hole but pretty far

obviously um is is very different than the way I play golf so I don't really play golf

but when I play golf I just think you know what I think you know what I got I'm better

if I just know what the club does yeah so I know what an eight iron does so I just use that one I am right honestly I

know how to use the eight iron yeah can't hit Woods no chance in music I know how to use the eight iron I know how to use the pitching wedge yeah and

the putter yeah so I take three clubs and I play three clubs we are the same can't hit very far because I'm only

using eight iron but I know what happens when I hit that eight iron so I play three clubs right whereas most people play a lot more clubs than three yeah

because they know what they're doing I don't I know how to use three clubs I play those three clubs so some people

should maybe think about bikes like that yeah yeah yeah we are the same golfer yeah I think I could hit my picture you

want to play par threes yes yeah yeah three yeah your eight irons probably

okay exactly right yeah I'm not going to a place that's not a part three that's so it's above my league man yeah I'm like what is this a part five all right

let me get my pitching wedge because I can hit it farther than my driver yeah it's like all right whatever I should

maybe take some lessons yeah probably you know that's a great yeah I just play golf less as a solution ride bikes more

well speaking of teaching what is the best way for this person to become a

qualified certified bike mechanic because they would like to do that

um I mean I would just say start working on your bike is a good place to start also parked towards a ton of free YouTube

videos to help show you yeah but if you like it like legit qualified certified uh one of the only places I know is Ubi

Universal Universal bicycle Institute I believe it's in Oregon Portland maybe or

bend um or Ashland one of those it's in Oregon and they have full classes you can go to

I've never been but um yeah there's there's never really been a uh sort of

nationally or globally recognized certification program for a bicycle mechanic most people are self-taught and

they get really good and bicycles let's be honest they're not that complicated like these are not motor these are not

cars and motorcycles they're quite a bit more simple than that um but they're still Technical and

important to know what you're doing of course ubis got a great course and I think people do care about it and it is

a meaningful certification however if you really know what you're doing you know you can roll up with your

own bike and just even build one bike at a shop and whether they'll watch what you're doing and be like yep you know

what you're doing yeah it's not yeah rocket science so yeah nice I don't know yeah I know USA

cycling has some certification for a race mechanic but I think that's more like rules that you have fallen like

Racecourse stuff I don't think it's like how technically good you are yeah and like many things you can teach yourself

a lot on YouTube's for free that's true the troop tube all right well boys we

gotta go because I'm hungry um that's a great reason yeah

all right let's answer one last question all right what is the best trail dog breed hmm

I don't know the answer to that I'm gonna say like any cattle or herding dog I would agree like a Healer or a Healer

or border collie yeah they're also smart none of us have dogs no we don't I really want a blue heel Jared has a cat

as a cat Liam and I won't even take on the responsibility of a fish

I wouldn't recommend it either no you don't want that recount of responsibility Chef just said we

have to go feed ourselves yeah that's enough responsibility and uh you know there's not a lot Roi with a fish you

just you don't get any affection you just need to feed it look at it I'm smiling

fish or a cat fish or a cat you don't get much

affection from us that's not true the cats definitely show affection yeah cats love and snow but not to strangers

depending on the cat actually like so I'm like I'm sure like some Strays I'll show you affection but side note uh I've

been Jared's really close neighbor for less than a week and his girlfriend's got my girlfriend watching their cat

already when they go on vacations yeah yeah it's true Taylor Washington is amazing yeah and now they're best

friends so now you're screwed she's got to come over and hang out Bean all the time yeah she's like she's like oh the Cat's super nice it's like super snuggly

and everything and she's like Paige warned me it wouldn't wouldn't be affectionate or nice and she's like but

it's really nice cash she's very sweet yeah I mean I like cats I'm definitely not one of those guys oh you're never cut man you're not a man like no way

dude I had cats growing up and dogs and the cats are great too they're great I've just never met a cat that I liked so you have never met Bean there's a lot

of cats out there man yeah plenty of cats in the sea yeah right and they also

serve good purposes like Farm cats they're good for rodent control super off the mountain bike podcast topic now

so deep thank you very much I want to talk more about bead if you've made it this far follow Bean's Instagram

accounts that bean is the name of Jerry's cabinet uh

anyways thank you very much we appreciate it uh what would really help us is if you left the podcast review

either on Spotify or apple podcasts if you type up a quick little review screenshot it and then you send that

screenshot to podcast at worldwide Cyclery via email uh Jared will reply and give you uh 15 gift card to the

worldwidecycling.com pair of grips which is a pretty freaking

good deal yeah or even like a free bottle of chain lube or something that's true 15 bucks actually gets you quite a

bit of stuff yeah on our website chain lube is great full of 19 038 products nineteen thousand thirty eight water

bottle ooh a trail in water bottle water bottle yeah so leave us a review um and if you want to watch us on

YouTube it is on YouTube if you're watching it on YouTube please hit that thumbs up button and drop a comment and say something like Jared's hair looks

awesome yeah um that's all we got thank you for listening and or watching we appreciate it see you next time Cheerio here we go

[Music] foreign

April 03, 2023

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