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Crestline Bikes Founder Troydon on Their New Bikes, eMTB Motors, Listener Questions & More... Ep. 146

Today on the podcast, the boys are joined by special guest Troydon, founder of Crestline bikes. We first chop it up over some recent rides and Crestline's new bikes before discussing the evolution of eMTB technology & motors, some potential future bikes, and some classic listener questions you won't want to miss. Tune in!

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If you are one strange human that would like to read a transcript of the podcast above, continue reading below!

ladies and gentlemen welcome to episode 146 of the MTB podcast presented and

hosted by worldwide Cyclery I'm Jared I'm Trevor I'm Liam and I'm troen that

is right ladies and gentlemen we have our good friend troan here co-founder of Crestline bikes on the podcast today and

how you doing troan I'm good I'm good thanks for having me thanks for coming in yeah it's good to be here it is excellent to have you and today we're

going to talk a littleit about Crestline we're going to talk all things Mound bikes and we have some excellent Crestline themed listener questions

ranging from will we ever see another downhill bike again what bikes are coming out

with and can I fit a big rotor on my J didn't prepare for that that was

that was rip he couldn't tell Zach's words of wisdom don't take life too

seriously I agree simple to the point that's right nice job Weaver yep don't

be so serious why so serious um Daniel's fun fact it takes around 3,000 cows to

supply enough leather for a full season's worth of NFL footballs what do you think about that

that's a lot of steak there's a lot at Stak that sounds

like oh nice oh that was really good that sounds like if that made its way to

some headlines there'd be some issues yeah well thankfully I hope they use like the rest of the cow you know for

I'm sure they do I'm sure they're not just like throwing the me to the side of the factory and making I'm pretty

confident they use the rest of the C thank you they're like no these cows are

strictly football this is a football only cow just get rid of the r oh I can sleep

tonight knowing that I NFL players probably just eat the rest of the cow yeah right we've probably eaten an NFL

cow dude yeah I mean maybe it takes 3,000 cows to feed a Seasons worth of NFL football players what what quality

of cow do you think they're getting just like dairy cow you think they're having like wagu leather on there wow I wonder

that's a good question are there Boutique footballs that have wagu leather that's a great question is it

does it make a difference we might have to look into this this could be a great documentary opportunity speaking of

opportunities fantastic testimonials this is another great one I found on the Google Maps listing for worldwide

Cyclery I keep spreading the word about this place they are the nicest group of peeps you will ever run into at the shop

or on the trail outstanding service is definitely something they strive for no matter how big or small the job is I can

rely on them to give me great advice on parts or anything else I have questions about they want to make sure you are stoked on your ride and help you get to

that happy place that's the goal man how much did you pay that

guy another great question uh that is for after hours troan that it's not for

the normal podcast we do not divulge wages here okay yeah I was just joking

that was a good that was a good testimonial it was right these are just happy people that are so happy they just want to shout their experience to the

world uh via the Internet and you know that segment started as someone riding

in just like hating on us and it was really funny and Jeff was like I want to read like all the ones that where people

hate on us and then it just turned into the actual good ones but I kind of wish like that one was really funny he was

just making fun of Jeff yeah he's ripping Jeff a new one it was good but Jeff can take it which why it works yeah

where is Jeff today why isn't he here he is he in Toronto or no no he's a Disney Disney World Disney World what do you go

Avatar Land or something like that actually sounds pretty cool uh they went to I guess Disney World he's told me about this before Disney World has a

really Co tells people he's going to Disney World oh he loves it he loves he's a self-proclaimed Disney adult fanatic yeah okay yeah um but I guess

Disney World has a safari theme park section of it and I guess it's really cool and they do like 100% of what they

can to actually have like proper plants and Wildlife and recreate the entire

Safari ecosystem really yeah in Florida there in the Everglades huh yeah I did

see from Taylor's Instagram today they were at the harambe section whoa is that where harambe was that like the they had

like a section dedicated to harambe R wow yeah that's amazing yeah rip harambe

I wanted to say something about the testimonial too testimonial as well I love when we run to like customers on

the trail I think it's super fun me and tro were riding last week and a good customer of ours Mario came up to us and

just out of randomly he's like what's up Trevor what's up troen or he said Troy on it is getting it is good meeting the

people that are out there riding the bikes man I mean that's bik that's the whole point he's got a Crest line as well anding yeah he was he was uh he was

stoked so yeah he was excited he was like you know telling us which Trails were groomed and done work on we should

go ride and huge shout out to Mario huge shout out to Mario does that happened to you a lot up in Bellingham people run

you on the trails and say what's up and love your bike and or like hey man will you fix my to local I think I think it's

it's more prevalent here honestly because there's so many more customers here because we started here true all

the first test bikes were here people saw them you know I don't know there's just I think people adopted ebikes here

a lot quicker than other zones in the US interesting um Bellingham kind of

started moving that Direction when some of the other big guys based up there started releasing ebikes and so it's

happening gradually but it's definitely a bit slower in other regions interesting LA's yeah it's a it's a big um proponent

for it was pretty wild like I would say the last it last like two years you'd go to like a major trail head in the

wintertime somewhere and there'd be five or six Crest lines in the parking lot well it's all our friends which is

pretty cool it was cool it was cool to see that like to see like some uh some

uh just like the progression of that and it is it's awesome to see yeah we we saw

one randomly in Mexico way riding in the trail networks and there D just rolled up on one night I was like yeah were

like what that's cool that's sick yeah there's like a couple like in Little spots around the world you know it's and

it's happening slowly but surely but I think just like you know the the majority of them were first sold in

California and so they grew here quicker and now that they're getting to other little zones you know one guy gets and

then his buddy tries it and you know and then they start gradually growing in those Z so cool to see everybody like

stoked on it worldwide too like I'm on the like there's a Crestline Facebook page that somebody made and I'm on it

yeah and and people are posting their rides and what they're doing to customize it and stuff and they're just stoked and it's really cool to see that

nice that's cool yeah that's epic I feel like I missed a lot of it because not long after we started I moved up to

Bellingham yeah and I kind of kind of sucks but I feel like I missed a lot of like you know all of that happening

around here so it's kind of nice to be back now for a while and then the plan is to try to spend a couple months in

Winter down here each year so nice get to ride with some of the guys a bit more which would be cool yeah winter time in

LA doesn't miss no it's like snowing in Bellingham right now dude oh nice

speaking of Bellingham I was going to say I feel like the Crestline suits that zone really well yeah it does I think

it's like the the way we designed it though um I've definitely ridden bikes

where you could tell that they were made in a certain area and they work really well there but they don't necessarily

work well in other places and we tried to make sure that that wasn't the case with our bike um and if you think about

it we did most of the the design and stuff here you know when Mark and I were still riding around yeah exactly and so

um but there's just so many options of how to set it up that you can make it

work in other places really well and yeah I I do enjoy the way it works in in

Bingham nice yeah I do notice I I drop the front end a little bit when I come here yeah so yeah cuz the trails are

much steeper in Bellingham I think they're steeper and I think I'm getting lazier and it's easier to turn cuz

there's more traction and here I have to consciously get more weight on the front wheel again cuz loose yeah yeah I was going to say the traction component like

you know you can kind of get away with murder up there and for sure you have actual soil to in here you just have

nothing so yeah prayers yeah some of the trails in LA right now are it literally

feels like you're rolling over mini bowling balls on top of concrete right it's a pretty how was that weird to get

used to again it is kind of weird to get used to I still think it was more

challenging getting used to wet and Roots yeah having ridden here for so

long before I went there um so coming back you you kind of figure it out you

know a little bit quicker but it's because I spent so many years here riding this you know so it's fun to ride

in in this you can kind of feel where that edges you know yeah I I love the dusty blown out conditions I think it's

fun you just can't follow your friends yeah that is the one thing that kind of sucks yeah honestly you're just going

just dust they you can just have trains and it's it's insane yeah you really can and it's yeah it's great yeah you like

if you're going to follow someone you got to be on their back wheel man and if they did something wrong both of you

cutting down so speaking of which tell us about a couple of bike rides you've

been on lately what you been riding let's think so um I rode Puma which is a

local Trail actually the first Trail I ever rode on a mountain bike really is p yeah nice and so I wrote that and then

I've written some of the other just local stuff like um in the Santa Monicas

um I'd like to get out to shuttle like we were going to try and shuttle able

but they closed the road so we they close it yeah so we didn't get to do that I should go and shuttle Crest line

while I'm here for sure um yeah maybe go a rocky Peak it's going to rain soon so it's

game on oh might rain this weekend we went to Hanes I think it's called and on

the way there we got a little sprinkle and that was pretty cool it's crazy to see how much work those guys have done

that's like Area 51 or whatever blue bug Area 51 yeah we i r blue bug with Mike T

yeah that was pretty fun that's yeah put in some big jumps that's seing of that

area I ran into a guy had a bre around here and he said he like what I wed himself like broke his Carbone at that

place I like sounds like the kind of place you would do something like that yeah I can see that happening yeah I'd

like to come and ride Wy you should be riding there a lot right right right in your house let's go let let's go it's

it's uh it's good right now so nice what about you guys well I've been on The

Mending of the ankle trains I've been on the uh that's true huh the road bike and the workouts no mountain bik we'll get

Liam out again soon he's almost there yeah no it's feeling better actually we'll go do a Santa Barbara day or

something that'll be fun yeah that's a l you've been riding the road bike a little bit there getting some blood flowing keeping your Fitness going a

little bit yeah I've been putting an actually decent amount of uh hours on the road back so dude he does not need

to work on Fitness bro yeah but you need to always always always need to maintain it and you always feel like you're

missing out of a little bit on Fitness when you're not doing it I think so when Jordan first started riding ebikes I

would just ride with him on a pedal bike and just try to keep up the whole time I haven't ridden a pedal bike in

like or something he was an early adopter of ebikes Jordan was the most complaining Rider I think I've ever

ridden with on a pedal bike so I rley want another lap but dude I don't want

to Pedal to me Liam dude I'm 150 lb you're 220 like this doesn't doesn't

make sense I feel like everyone complaining about my complaining made me an

ebug I think you're right about that I had no other I had no other

choice but to embrace it so yeah and that's the origin story of Crestline right there yeah exactly pretty much

yeah that's amazing yeah I I think when you first when we first heard about you kind of making your own bike company and

going to make ebikes and whatnot I was like checks out yeah that makes that makes a lot of sense he's he's not

making a product he doesn't actually want that's for sure I'm just trying to catch up for last time I started a lot

later than most of you guys and I still I still don't believe that I know so I feel like I need to get more downhill

time in right yeah so I'm just trying to condense that so yeah that's cool yeah

it is cool um well by your natural natural ability you wouldn't really know it like you said it's like kind of I'm

not buying it still I feel like you've been riding bikes competitively since you have been a little Gro

amazing oh man you show up to like local Fontana race and win the vet Pro

class and smoke everybody and then tow us into a crab apple and yeah this kind

ridiculous what about you Trevor what you been riding lately um been riding ebikes actually a lot I've been working

out a ton so legs have been smoked body's been smoked and the ebikes have been great for that I've been we've uh

have the new um avox DJ DJI bike so been testing that out a little bit and going

going real fast so um it's been it's been cool and it's a great recovery tool really cuz if you if you're doing legs

in the gym you can't really just go ride your bike the next day and I can just go ride the next day and it's I've getting a bunch of laps so it's cool you still

have blast I ride the next day but this this is the Gateway this is the Gateway it's like it's a great recovery tool and

then it just becomes a great like you're just recovering all the time like what are you doing I'm doing a recovery run

on the ebug yeah yeah doing another recovery run Trevor's already been on the the full E

train for a while true a couple e races yeah I did a couple I did a couple couple races on the crest line yeah in a

what a couple years back you went full either epic Evo like down country bike or ebike there's no in between big bike

is ebike short bike pedal bike yeah and that made a lot of sense for me too like I could do big XC missions on the XC

bike and ride everyone everywhere locally and just smoke my whole my legs my body and then do the same exact ride

the next day on an ebike and be fine and uh it was great so super fine you can also just do the same exact

ride like every fine I feel better about myself with that kind of balance in my

life I'm just trying to keep like a like a I'm not trying to spike my heart

rate my ex yeah yeah okay I'm just trying to stay in like that healthy zone

yeah like zone two zone three I don't even know what that I've never put a heart rate monit on but the good thing

is the good thing is if you if you're pushing on the downhill on an ebike you can get your heart rate pretty high can

on the downhill but I mean and then you just cruise up the hill and using the motor so yeah troan says he doesn't like

to Pedal but if you've seen him get on the pedals he can pedal really good in

short and has a lot of power he can yeah I've seen it that's

awesome what have you been riding Jared uh that's a great question I two have also been riding ebikes the crest line

specifically it's just the worldwide it is the uh emtb podcast now and uh I know

I've been riding the S180 yeah yeah S180 um and it's really fun yeah it's like I

wish I had a downhill Trail like Right Out My Back Door to ride it it's sick what you pretty much do yeah pretty much

yeah so I wish I had that but um riding it even just like locally it's super fun and then spectrum and uh that good stuff

is is really fun on that bike yeah you're going to have to do that um Liam I know you're not like you know crazy

about ebikes but I feel like you guys should try the shorter travel setup as well I want to try the shorter travel I

haven't really ridden too much of a shorter travel ebike and the DJI avox is kind of the first one I've ridden and

it's pretty fun actually um so I got I gotta give that a shot yeah well when they come in I'll get I'll probably get

one 160 180 demo R2 R3 yeah or just set

one of them up as 180 it's I mean as a 160 it's not that much wor that's the beautiful thing about your platform I

think is that you can change around the setup way easier than really any other bike I think change the shock stroke

change the air shaft and the fork and um flip like turn the flip chip and you're

good to go like same linkage same frame and totally different bike yeah well that was the idea from the beginning too

was just to have something that people can ride in different zones CU not everybody wants you know some huge Bly

thing um and I don't know I think it's also so that you can progress and start

at a certain level and then if you feel like you want more travel you can add it instead of having to go and buy another

bike you know yeah um and then you can see if you actually need it you know see

when you need it so I have one set up like for galby which is his own that's

close to the house um as a 160 170 you know and it's really fun it's got a

mallet wheel on the back and it's just a little bit flatter and Tighter and yeah

600 W battery and nice yeah a little bit more n than a 180 travel yeah exactly

lighter more nimble like completely changes the characteristics of theik so that's cool that's awesome so for that

you just change flip chip so flip chip to change the um rare travel and then an

air shaft in the fork you know that's pretty legit and then you can run like um what we've done is we've put

the reach adjust headsets mhm on the uh shorter travel ones cuz that then

preserves the Geo a little bit more yeah you the fork so you can drop the fork

all the way to a 160 and if you've got an external cup you're you're only really dropping it about you know like 8

Miles cuz the external cup I think is 12 H so you still get that slightly more

trail bike feel but you don't get a super low BB and um yeah the bike still

works really well I guess that's really sick and then if you want to be like on the other side of the spectrum even more

aggressive and you do the same thing except 180 then your bike Slack you know so that's how I ride you know I

have a bike when we ride some of the main trails at home and mine's set up with a reach adjust so it's got the

external stack plus a 184 180 rare yeah nice that's cool works well yeah

honestly I don't really know of another bike that offers all those options and combinations it's kind of crazy to me

because all it like one thing that gives you so many options is literally just having a 56 mil straight H tube right

and some people have it yeah but they have it so they could do the internal cable

routing so so you can't use the reach asset cuz you need to put the cables in

yeah and but they actually got the correct size head CH yeah you know it would work if they didn't have the

internal cable already yeah and like with the flip chip though I feel like you know change travel and stuff like

it's almost like bike industry doesn't want you to do that because they want to sell you a different bike you know yeah so whatever it's also interesting to do

it and actually see how much difference it makes for sure honestly yeah because our leverage curve and everything

doesn't change that much when you change the the travel so the actual the way the bike feels is very similar you know so

that's cool I'm pretty Keen to try that uh 160 once it's ready to go yeah it'll be good for around here I think nice I

think I think it'd be great around here like most trails around here don't warrant anything over 160 travel yeah um

so I think that'd be pretty cool I also really want to try like the new Bosch motor just because of how quiet it is it

is I can't believe like my biggest gripe about ebikes from when they've come out till now is just how loud and clinky

they are when you kind of drop them on the ground like I my biggest goal for when I'm setting up a bike is quietness

cuz I think the quieter a bike is you feel like you're not breaking it and you can go faster with more confidence and

man this this motor doesn't clack around at all at all and uh it's almost like

you drop the bike and it sounds more dialed than a normal bike would which is incredible because just the weight on

there is nice it's nice and planted so um yeah really looking forward to trying that out cuz I think that's huge yeah

I've been running that Onyx Hub on my bike as well yeah and so it's a dead silent Hub and now I kind of wish that

the Bosch didn't have the little ratchet sound when you rotate the things backwards because that's the only noise coming from that um and it's it's like

pretty intermittent so it doesn't happen very often it's not the whole time right it's just only it's only if you backpedal right um or if you have a

little bit of overrun and then the front chain ring turns then you he it a bit um but there's no Hub noise and yeah

it's it's kind of crazy how quiet it is compared to the last one yeah you can

really just hear like your tires gripping which I think is super important not not not in California they're not gripping they do a little

bit right so is that something that like do you think would potentially be like a retrofit for previous generations of the

motor or is that like the new one is a whole different design and in order to have it be quiet you need to get the new

motor so unfortunately when fixed that well we can say fixed it but the reason

why the old motor was a little bit noisy was they it it was very free when you

went over the certain threshold speed limit right so there was no resistance

and they could have tightened all of that stuff up and eliminated some of that noise but then they would have added drag mhm and somehow in the new

motor which unfortunately is a total redesign fortunately or and unfortunately so it's got different

mounting points so it's not something that can be popped in in the old bike of course um but they've managed to somehow

decouple that the those gears um when the motor is not working and you're just

pedaling so it's still very free and there's no resistance when you're pedaling without the motor on but then

when the motor kicks in it's it's just quiet because I don't I don't actually know how they did it but

pretty quiet you had us you had us in the first

half that was that was good that's awesome that's awesome um whatever they did it's awesome yeah I think if should

go listen to one of the Rob rodes videos he probably knows a bit more exactly but I don't think they're saying anything

about it either because it's something that they figured out which I'm sure it's going to take others a little while

to figure out because everyone's got the same issue yeah yeah it doesn't matter who they are like um Shimano had it

there motor rattle they could have also like tightened everything up had more resistance had AC quiet a motor um DJI

has it you know there's makes a bit of noise they're tightening their up to do the same thing then they're adding

resistance so it's like Bros has it like they all yeah everyone's going to go through this you know so it is cool that

they figured that out so I think they're all going to figure it out eventually I'm pretty sure I mean what are they going to do they're going to go buy one

in the Bosch Motors and take yeah that's probably exactly what they're doing right now I mean yeah that's awesome it's just

a cool it's a cool step in ebike technology I think it's a huge step personally it's good I was real focused

on the whole belt drive thing for a while um and how that was going to quieten things down yeah and now I'm

like I still think the Bel Drive thing is cool and there's there's going to be place for it and then when it's done right and the gearbox is there and it's

going to be amazing gearbox motor Bell Drive all in one yeah and that's like exciting stuff and that's why there's

like the progression for ebuck is still there's still a lot of stuff that can happen yeah um but right now I'm not as

fussed by because this is fixed and the bike is quiet and and stram transmission

works pretty well yeah like the drivve train if You' got it set up right yeah

I've run the same chain and cassette for like eight nine months on an ebike before and it's like fine yeah yeah you

know it's pretty good yeah better than it was better than it was getting there like pros and cons right little bit

heavier shifting is a little bit slow compared to like the mechanical stuff so it just depends on what you're trying to

achieve and what you're trying to build you know but it's I like the functionality of it I'm not trying to

smash through gears you know like so for me it's it's great I feel like you don't really need to on ebike as much anyways

yeah yeah motor takes care of a lot of stuff nice well real quick give us a

little background on like you know Crestline origin story like what led you to start the brand

real quick getting like like elevator pitch and when when you launched what what why do you want to start it and

then what bikes are you currently make yeah okay let's think about this how do

I make this like super exciting basically I was just like

driving home from Park City with Mark and we were talking about ebikes

and what was available at the time and I said to him hey why don't we make a bike

and that's pretty much the origin story um and then you know we figured it would

be quite difficult and I said well let me just do some digging and see you know and so I started exploring and seeing

what it would take to actually do it and once I realized that you know with the

right pieces of the puzzle we could do it then we were like okay cool if we can raise enough Capital we can we can do it

you know other people have done it and and so yeah so it was literally just a a drive home and we wanted a certain bike

that wasn't around yet and we were like let's just make one

and you know like ultimately bikes that we would have been probably perfectly happy with came out but we had already

started and you know it's kind of exciting to make something exactly the way you want it for sure it's hard as

well um and you do realize pretty quickly the limitations that you're

faced with just due to just basic physics and fitting things in and what's

available to you you you know from the partners that you choose and um so you just do the best you possibly can with

what's available yeah you know and I think that's all that anyone can do um so I often look at other products and

you know you don't know when that was designed what the designer was told what

he you know like all the instructions that were around it and those all affect the decisions right you can only make a

decision based off of the information you have available to you at that point in time so well and some brands are

forced to use a certain suspension design or certain components and so on so stting your own you're like we can

kind of choose whatever we want yeah and I think we were more focused on um the

things that were missing for us were like the motor the battery

um some of the Geo stuff the amount of travel Etc not necessarily we weren't

necessarily like we have to come up with a new suspension platform that's going to change the game because um I don't

know we just the stuff we were writing was working and still works really well

and there's so many like options right now um so we just chose something that

we understood and had ridden a bunch so we knew we'd be able to test and make

sure that we got it right and we also had a partner um and an engineer that we

could work with Jimmy from Cascade who's really well versed in that platform so

for us was like how do we just make the best product we can um with again with what's available to us you know I could

have we could have sat down and try to come up with some different suspension thing but I I just yeah we just wanted

to on other stuff essentially you wanted a bike basically a beefy endural bike that had you know the durability the

travel numbers and the GE you wanted with the paired with the motor that you wanted and that didn't exist at the time

yeah and a removable battery and to be honest it still all of that and maybe is only caught up

in the maybe last year or so yeah and how when did Crestline launch 2022 23 so

let me think about this cuz it was we chose a really good time to start right

you guys really did right in right in the middle of cover yeah and and I laugh

and people have said to me you you're crazy that you did this so let me think about it cuz we ultimately ended up

having the Daniel by come out first right yeah yeah and that was like August of 22 I believe

which means we started at the beginning of 2021 like in

like February or March 2021 so and I think that that Park City trip with I

was on yeah and that was like July August of 2020 yeah and so we spoke

about it and then like I think December of that year I formed a company and then

like January February March we started actually like doing stuff and I remember people saying to me you need to order

parts now you know if if you're going to make whatever 100 200 buckes you need to order your parts now and worry about the

bike whereas in you know as far as history goes people always had to focus on the lead time for making the frame

making the bike and then they would just order parts cuz they had like whatever 90 120 Day lead

times so we ordered all those parts before we actually had developed

the bike and we still waited way longer than we wanted to which is why we

released the downhill bike first wow the downhill bike was launched in September of 2022 yeah that makes sense cuz we

started that in December of 2021 yeah cuz I was like

we we had finished developing the ebike um we were kind of waiting for a

production run and parts mainly and so we were like let's let's we'd always you

know both Mark and I love riding downhill bikes so we were like hey let's um let's see if we can make a couple

downhill bikes and then um one of the guys at the factory that has become

actually a really helpful person for us um and a consultant for us uh suggested

doing a prototype mold and that allowed us to do it in that quicker time frame

you know yep so that was pretty cool nice and then yeah eik came after that which was like spring of 23 probably or

when we had like a pilot run yeah probably not too long December of 23 I think yeah

well NO2 yeah December 22 not too long after that the Daniel bike and those were all here in California cuz I just

sold them to France yeah you know and it was just France yeah so so yeah so

that's how it all kind of fell into place I guess oh and then the the the

crazy thing is uh you know everyone's saying hey you you chose the craziest

time to start and etc etc when we were working with the factory we work with called VIP um they were all under

lockdown they had forced a number of employees to stay in the factory under

lockdown they had shut down manufacturing but all of the engineers and the R&D and the development side of

things were there so I remember we only submitted our 3D renderings or our 3D

design for one size and they actually did the other two sizes for us because

they were just sitting around in the factory and they didn't have a ton of stuff to do so they were like oh we'll do it for you so and we I feel like we

actually benefited from starting during that time yeah cuz everyone was trying to have bikes manufacture that were

already out and they weren't trying to design new bikes we need to capitalize on what's Happening make as many bikes

we can I it's was like well no one's designing bikes and these guys are stuck here so they have nothing but time

exactly and they helped us and then when we made the Daniel bike we actually had them lay up all 50 frames in the R&D Center yeah so we had

like th those frames will be a better layup than any production frame because

it's those frames were laid up by guys that actually do the R&D and actually write the book for the people that

actually lay up the frames ultimately in a production run wow so yeah so that was

was pretty cool as well you know I don't know that we' get to do that again um because they're busy now everybody's

developing new stuff you know and everybody's also trying to get out of certain zones and the factory we're in

is in Vietnam which is quite a desirable area to be in right now um so the

Factory's getting real busy again nice right well let's uh have a word from our

episode sponsor yeah and then we'll ask you about what bikes you're currently making future Crestline sounds good

sounds good who's the sponsor oh you'll see and now a word from our sponsors hello hello mountain bikers Jeff here

just a couple quick things I wanted to say genuinely thank you to everyone who made a donation to my fundraiser page

for the Old Fort strong endurance Festival I will be doing that 24-hour race December 7th to the 8th and am

honored to go out there and raise money for a good cause and help out Western North Carolina and the mountain bike Community there if you still want to

donate or you can I would genuinely appreciate it the link is in the video or podcast description and that race

will be December 7th to the 8th I'm going to try and uh preliminarily run 40 Mi and ride 60 Mi to make it a breezy

100 might be pretty cold though but we'll we'll see what I can do and last but not least here I also wanted to

mention there is still a couple spots left for our all Mountain rides trip in Tasmania which is coming up next April

so if you want to ride some bikes in Tasmania on some of the best Enduro bike trails in the world uh myself Jared and

Liam are all going and is going to be put on by our good friend kiwi Phil who is a mastermind of creating epic

mountain bike trips uh once again links in the description thank you guys very much cherio and now back to the show

troan real quick give us uh a little little insight into the bikes that you

have just created and that we're making a video on right now okay so there's obviously some updates regarding the

Bosch system which everyone probably knows about at this point um Motors changed uh high energy density batteries

have changed so the batteries are lighter there's an 800 W battery option there's a 600 they are both mounted in

the lowest point in the frame um they're still removable so you can change between them you can also run a range

extender um and then as far as the build kits go

or options go we've done a frame kit for people because I did a very small run of

frame kits in the last batch that were very popular and so we've done a a

limited batch of frame kits so for 2025 there's 100 uh 50 of them have already

been pre-sold wow they're in the first container that arrives late December um

there's another 50 coming in late February so if people want to grab frame

kits those will be here then uh and then there is a kind of special edition build

which I did just so that people can see the versatility that we've spoken about so we called it an l s 160 um that is

160 rear 160 front slightly lighter weight components um not crazy though still a

very capable bike still has a Zab um we went to the Super Deluxe with an XL air

can as a shock so that's a little bit lighter and then that one has um a slightly higher end bold kit so XO

Carbon wheels carbon bars and with a 600 W battery it's like 4 7.9 lb somewhere

around there um is that one coming with the 600 W battery you can choose whatever battery you want so you can

either choose a 600 or an 800 very cool and then our sort of what's becoming our

sort of Flagship bike is the 180 travel so um we did an S180 we called it an

S180 not an RS because there is no race motor in this generation of Motors that

we know of as yet um so uh it's just the new Bosch CX

performance motor I'm pretty sure they got some stuff up their sleeves I've got to be careful what I say or don't say

even though I haven't really I don't know anything and I haven't confirmed anything um I have made the mistake of

saying I wouldn't be surprised if I saw something you don't know anything and then and then I was like quoted as

saying this is 100% for certain but anyway um so yeah so yeah those are the

basic packages and and um that's what you guys have up on your website if people want to see them go and dig into

the components and check them out we don't have a lot left from this first batch um that are going to be shipping

late December I'm trying to get some extra frames in um we do have some of

the ls 160s what people should keep in mind is you can easily set up the 160 as

a 180 travel bike or vice versa exactly and and the 160 is a little bit higher

in build kit if you're into that too yeah and or if you like the colorway yeah you know and so I do want people to

know that and I'm sure you guys would do it for them just as we would do it for them because it's a flip chip and then

an airshaft in the in the fork you know it's like it's not a massive job bad not a big deal yeah I think Trev can handle

that yeah I think so too sick um yeah and we have we're pre-selling them now

uh we have a handful of them claim for and we have a handful of them left so nice yeah so

I do think the build kit on both is pretty impressive and it's kind of how it should be built like especially on

the uh on the 180 on the S180 it's uh totally dialed it's just ready to go it's it's uh like bulletproof Wheels Zab

in and um super Delux

are yeah Wills are bulletproof you're right for most

people instance is all would have happened at any wheel it would happened but uh no the 180 Bill kit is like I

wouldn't I mean I'd put my tra one cockpit on it but uh that's the only change I would make on that entire bike I'd run it exactly how it is I want to

ask you guys your experience with the mavens because I saw a pretty scathing

review really and people have actually reached out to me and like said oh I saw

you have the mavens and I saw this review and like what do you think of the mavens and personally they are the first Shram

breaks that I actually really like and I have on all my bikes now yeah which I think says a fair bit because I was

always uh sh you know like Saints or something like that or the um kind of

got along with ha right the Dominion a4s I I got along with those pretty well as well yeah but these mavens are the first

um Shrine breaks that I'm and I I really am happy with them they're pretty insane

I'm pretty heavy they work extremely well they're extremely powerful I don't

know what happened in that review and I'd like to know what you guys what your experience I think two things I saw a

review that maybe is the one you're talking about I can't remember exactly what it was but it was like headlined you know something like they weren't

good or they weren't um worst break ever no they were like um inconsistent or something like that so I think number

one is a bleed procedure is different than any other spam and it took us a little bit to dial that in but samam has

good documentation on it you just have to massage the pist a bit more a lot more fluid a lot more air can build up in there so that's number one and then

two this is our opinion but they come almost always with Organic brake pads

which bite harder than metallic yeah the the bite on the organic pads is honestly

Savage it's like you can it's incredible I personally don't like organic pads I'm

big metallic pad guy but um I think it's a little bit more manageable with the metallic pads and they don't fade as bad

or and they last a lot longer work they work in the wet it'll last you like 6 months for break pads which is great

times on metallic pads not on mavens but on my codes like all season long riding bike parks and big mountain stuff I'm

like oh these break pads got to be worn out and they look I'm like 50% life left I'm like well yeah warn I imagine also

like um if Shram knows the procedure now that they've sent to you guys on those

kits I'm pretty sure that they will do that to the OE breaks definely so I

think people specking them maybe on the first couple you know sets that went out

spec they didn't do that to them you know I'll go through like my experience a little bit we uh got the uh like

limited edition mavens right when they came out the like Van Halen kind of colorway looking thing and um yeah I had

an inconsistent bite point on my rear lever and um they didn't really say anything about massaging the Pistons or

wasn't really like known at all nothing was really known about the break at the time and yeah the bite point was a little bit inconsistent but um there's

just a little bit of air stuck in the the caliper I think and then you have to massage the Pistons so squeeze them in squeeze them out use the the pad spacer

to do that you can also um get two like H hs2 rotors put them in the caliper

without any brake pads and squeeze the Pistons all the way out just puts them to the maximum point then push it back

do it again a couple times just get them nice and lubed up and free and then your bite point will be consistent lubing them up is key right yes never go and

dry that is that is absolutely essential um so yeah that's that's been my

experience but they have been like the power is incredible on them I think on

the silver level ones like sometimes weever can be a little squeaky and and and move a little bit

um so you okay um no I agree though I think that

it is an insanely powerful break I don't understand the hate though it must be from people just not setting them up

right or yeah I think the bleeds important I think also the bleed kit that it comes with is not as good in my

opinion as the normal dot fluid bleed kit well it doesn't come with a pro bed kit it comes with the basic bleed kit

they also offer mineral oil Pro like the seals on it don't seem as

good to me like it in when you're vacuuming the system it kind of introduces air a little bit into the line in my opinion um so I don't like

that as much so it's a little bit harder to get a good bleed but when you do get a good bleed they're insane is that with

that crazy I haven't used a lot of shrine bre so it was the first time I used that like whatever bleeding edge

tool yeah the bleeding edge tool which is kind of cool the way you like clip it in and then you can super easy it's pretty like clean that pretty good it's

it's the syringe um the way that the the nonpr version It's like a plastic thread

with the O-ring okay where the pro version is metal metal didn't the I thought that the red brakes came with

the metal one cuz I got those as well and I thought they might got pre-production or something so yeah I I

just know that like even the fitting from the hose to the syringe is plastic

okay and it kind of has to be a press fit and I don't know I just don't think it's as high quality it could have been I think I remember that um so that was

just the only issue I really had but um yeah I've been I've been running them on the crest line and yeah they've been

super super good I uh I tried to like find other flaws with them besides the bleed setup and I can't I think it takes

a bit of getting used to though like I when I first put them on a bike I was like man I'm grabbing a bit too much

break I've never had that before ever and now like I put I literally just put them on all my bikes and now I'm like

finally at a point where I'm used to them and I don't know what it's going to be like to go back to something else honestly yeah well let me tell

you because you get to ride all the test bikes yeah they're I'm I want them for

my personal bike because I went back to my other bike I'm like I don't have mavens on it and they I'm like I love

that power it's insane and then I'm like feeling like I have to pull my other breaks I won't name them right now th so

so people people also complained that the lever pull is harder than let's say a haze or M or something I mean Haze

have the lightest lever pull it's like too light in my experience you get arm pump from actually when you're when you

actually hit hit the pad not like not pulling it but when you're actually pulling it and you can't break when

you're actually breaking when you're actually breaking that's when you get arm pumped not not pulling the lever to the bite Point once you hit the bite

Point that's when you get the arm pumped so which you barely have to do on M and on the mavens you're barely squeezing them very hard and you have no arm pump

because of to realize that have you noticed that when you adjust the contact there's like

a contact adjustment further out or further in depending on which way you adjust that too it actually affects how

stiff the lever is if you put it real far in so that it's like there's like no

there's no free movement it's quite hard to pull if you have a bit of movement it's actually not that hard to pull I

tend to run the the dial on the opposite way of the arrow which is kind of how you're supposed to bleed them and I just

think it gives the lever the best feel but it does give more resistance I think if you turn it the opposite way it's

less resistance but to me the lever doesn't feel as good so I like to run it the opposite way of the arrow

personally interesting but if you want to have if you do have inconsistent bite you can tune that with the the dial and

it does work very well nice nice well that was a really great little Maven

tangent oh sorry no it was good um let's

jump into list your questions shall we do it all right this one is the question that has been uh burning in all of our

ears we want to know will the RS 205 vhp ever be for sale again

so Never Say Never um but that was a prototype mold that we made that frame

with which we've obviously mentioned a number of times they did manage to make

a lot more out of that mold than any of us expected um when they make that mold

they use a much softer material so instead of Steel they use this like some kind of aluminum which is much easier to

machine so it's cheaper and quicker um but then obviously it can wear out as well but I think the Factory's done a

really good job at looking after it I managed to make an extra they said to me originally like 50 like you know if

you're lucky kind of thing we did 50 they then said they thought they could do another 20 I did that so we had um

bikes for the team um I've got some bikes on hand for the team for next year depending on what happens with all the

UCR ruling and you know whether we can actually get to the races or not um that's another whole debacle you know we

could spend hours talking about but anyway um so I might have some from that

might not might be able to make a couple more so we'll just have to play that one by yeah you know yeah I feel like

downhill bikes don't date as quickly as other bikes um when I've looked at

downhill bikes made by bigger manufacturers some of them you know they'll have a a modelio whatever you

want to call it um around for you know three or four years so I feel like

there's still some life in it if we can make a couple more for sure development cycle is definitely slower I feel like yeah I don't know what I don't know what

we would change on it we you know with with the guys writing it with Aaron writing it we haven't had a ton of

feedback of things they want changed so you know we've done some work on linkages to um hit uh 27% % progression

um which is pretty close to what our stock progression was as well but it was something that he asked for and you know

so I don't know that there's a hell of a lot to to do to it honestly nice you

know and so there's no plans to like put it into full production it's just keep it where it is I mean if I think if we

did actually spend the money on making a like a proper full-time mold yeah I

would approach it slightly differently and maybe focus on something more injo

related that can be set up as a downhill bike you know whereas this one was like a downhill bike through and through and

then you know you could set it up as a nuro bike but I don't know how anyone

would want to Pedal that thing anyway I've I've pedal I've pedal one around the shop before was wasn't pretty I I

set one up as a yeah pseudo kind of par Park bike and I ped a

bit I didn't have a dropper on it but yeah it worked it was nice to like I had a little bit more pedal range to get

around a bike park essentially yeah yeah yeah not full-blown down so yeah so not the best answer but maybe that's okay

they I mean you know like if people are interested in them they should just shoot us an email because I have a little list of people nice and if we do

have any extras I'm probably not going to put them up on the website I'll just send an email to that list and see who

wants from that list and you know I don't think we'll get to actually

putting we won't make enough to get to putting them back on the website yeah it's like the beauty of how small

Crestline is is that you can have like kind of a personal relationship with the customer totally I think that's super

cool and like something that I don't think any other bike brand can offer that kind of level of yeah

personalization or I don't know customer support in that in that regard I think it's super cool it is cool it's cool you

get to know the people as well and you get to know what they like what they don't like what they want you know what's working for them what what isn't

yeah it you're like face to face with the customer all the time yeah and riding with them as well

honestly like pretty surpris like people are out there like ripping dude you know it's surprising yeah that's awesome yeah

so it's cool to ride with them like there some I think some guy from Texas showed up in in Bellingham I was like

okay dudes from Texas let's go you know ride some Trails see how things go yeah

ripping dude was dude was ripping yeah so that's epic yeah awesome well I kind

of what going to say yeah I was going to say that leads right in the next question you kind of touched on it yeah Will Crestline ever make an endural bike

so again Never Say Never um I've always had this idea of potentially making a

front triangle that works with the rear triangle of any of either existing ebike or a future ebike or something so um

just to be efficient you know yeah I think um we are because we're small and because of

the way we're doing this we have to think differently to everybody else and

if you can have um a rear triangle mold just running constantly where they're just pumping those out and then we can

change front triangles you know you if you think about it um you have a couple

different sizes if we can add um an Endura bike front triangle at some point

I think it would be kind of cool you know if if we feel like it makes sense at the time I need to get some of you guys to

test them though oh yeah my arm don't

bikes we will do that for you so yeah so that's a great idea definitely

definitely a potential you know um but to see how things go nice yeah we want

to do what we're doing now as like really well and we want to focus on that and just make sure we're doing it the

best to the best of our ability and then um if opportunities come you know in the future yeah why not you know sick yeah

totally fair all right next question longtime listener recently ordered a new rs180 frame MX configuration and should

be building up soon question regarding chain ring size and crank length this is my first e- mountain bike on my Enduro

bike I run a 32 Toth with 165 cranks which feels perfect on the ebike I was thinking of going 160 or 155 cranks and

34 or 36 tooth chaining what are the pros and cons to different sizes on the ebike and what do you guys prefer

cheers so I think we should all chip in on this one um it's kind of cool that guys are

ordering frames and then building them up personally I am 6'3 on an XL and I

run 155 cranks and I'm tempted to try 150s really so but I have been riding

the shorter cranks for a while and what you need to keep in mind as well is when you have shorter cranks you need a

longer reach because as your feet get closer together your reach in essence become shorter H so um he'd have to

check um exactly like how he chose his sizing and what his current bike sizing

is and then maybe adjust a bit according to that you know but on the ebikes guys do tend to like running the shorter

cranks because you're pedling up technical stuff you're trying to go up stuff that you never went up before um

so it's nice to have a little bit of extra clearance yeah yeah and you don't necessarily need the leverage I guess yeah and then chain ring I mean I'm on a

36 so I don't know that you need like a smaller chain ring than that man not

really yeah no on my last ebike I had set up for me I had won 60s with a 34

tooth chain ring and I could have easily gone 155s with a 36 and I think that

would have felt better um and you're you're going so fast all the time that like you find yourself in the bottom of

the cassette more and ideally you should spend most of your time in the middle of the cassette right

so yeah for me personally I'm still kind of playing with uh crank sizes I've always run 170 and I've got pretty long

leg so I felt like it was a good fit until I was riding a Crestline ebike and

it had 165 cranks I didn't even know um 55s or 55s 160 we0 okay yeah and I

didn't even like really think twice about it and then I'm riding a for a bid in Druid V2 right now with 165 cranks on

it and I've been loving it um I can definitely feel like when I pay attention to it a little bit smaller of

a circle that I'm kind of making I think on actual pedal bikes having the slightly longer

having that Leverage is no you don't think so it's it's been completely proven that the leverage difference this

just dispens yeah the The Leverage they've done like extreme tests from like a 125 crank arm a 150 and a 175 and

a 200 and a 225 and done the whole leverage difference between them all and

it's like a 2% difference from the smallest to the largest W so there's not really a major leverage difference in

the fact of the the circles so it's all just about fit and feel um you can turn

the bike better with the smaller the smaller closer closer together you can if you're especially if you're clipped

in I guess if you're on Flats too you can kind of Leverage your your heels and your ankles and and move the bike and

turn the whole bike as one unit I feel like a little bit better for sure it's it's a little hard to feel sometimes but

um yeah I haven't really complained I know some people run in like yeah 150s and 155s and they're raving about it so

I think it's worth trying um especially a 150 like would be a huge change yeah be kind of crazy I want to try 150s I've

been on 155 for so long now that I don't feel like it's going to be a major thing

yeah I'm think all my pedal bikes currently are 165s if I were to run an ebike I'd probably go 155 on the when I

get my Frameworks I'm building with 165s to start but I think I'm going to try to get some 160s from five Dev and try

those too nice because a lot of companies don't make shorter than 165

right more and more are they are but yeah correct like sh only does down to 165

right5 Shram makes 15050 what was that guy riding remember on the Canfield in in Utah and he it

looked like he was on kids oh my goodness it was a guy I think it might have been 150s and he was going like on

a clown bike it was crazy yeah yeah what what what cranks crank arms are coming

stock on the new bikes 155s and 150s depending on the size of the bike gotcha

cuz you can you can see it it's a noticeable noticeably smaller crank on than what you're normally used to like I

like it especially compared to a 170 whatever you had on there well I mean for guys that are going like getting

their first ebike right maybe it's a more drastic change for them but for guys that have been riding ebikes for a

while they're on the short crank train already yeah it's it honestly is very nice and refreshing to not hit your

crank arm on every rock on a technical climb that you're pedaling up on especially in the ebike where you're really slamming into those climbs like

clim an ebike is a totally different experience than a normal bike and it's pretty fun yeah um but you're definitely slamming into things more so with your

bottom bracket than not so you're not you're not really hitting anything so not hitting pedals on anything and I

think that's good yeah so I I don't know that we were helpful in that question do we did we

actually we just gave 155 is with the 36 yeah that that's what I would recommend

yeah that sounds good and if he wants to try 160s just to be safe 160s yeah yeah

yeah cranks are not crazy expensive too so something that you can change if you you know nice feel like you made the

wrong choice here is another question from a Crest Line Rider are 220 mm

rotors compatible with the RS 7550 in the rear so technically we haven't approved

them um I just have never seen the need for a 220 rotor and this can be a whole

at least in the rear maybe yeah at least in the rear um again I'm

220 myself like plus riding gear I've never ever had an issue locking up a

rear wheel so I'm not 100% sure why there's a big push for those maybe it's

a riding style thing and maybe if you're on the brakes consistently you know on a certain pitch Trail they do heat up at

the end of the day they'll probably all end up heating up at some point one will just heat up earlier than the other um

you can like I know guys have run them you know so you probably want to steer clear of the really wide ones yeah uh as

clearance might become an issue if you're running 220s with really wide rotors it's fair yeah yeah I've run 220s

before but on like um the Shimano the Shimano rotor this like an SLX base rotor because that's all they had and

it's a thin rotor and it was fine yeah yeah it like yeah I think the worri is that it might rub against the frame a

little bit but that's kind of like at your own risk I guess H I think it also the the 220s get hot when they do get

get hot they get really hot and if they're wider they're because they're bigger they're Clos to the frame and

yeah so it's just checks out yep all right another one when's UK

distribution so right now we Shi to the UK okay and we just ship directly to

customers um we haven't really gone down the distribution train anywhere honestly

because we found a pretty efficient way of shipping from the US to customers and

as we grow it just seems to make the most sense and the way we do it is um I

set up an account in you know New Zealand or Australia or the UK or Europe

with the Bosch service provider so actually in the UK it's mura and they

look after all the BOS aftermarket parts and stuff and um in New Zealand and Australia I think it's like bike sports

or um anyway and so we ship the bike to a customer with no battery in it it's

really easy to ship there's no dangerous goods gets there within 3 days um and

then we drop ship the battery to them and then they pop it in oh so and that's so we are our own UK distribution nice

yeah and then that's a nice way of going about it yeah and then for support like you know you go into your Bosch app and

you look up the nearest Bosch certified store and they'll give you support whether you're in the UK or whether

you're in New Zealand or South Africa or um and for parts these are parts that

come on you know again on any bike you've bought anywhere so if it's a Shram fork or something you'll get the

same support and then if you have any frame issues you just get a hold of us and if you have any issues with parts

from other vendors and you're not getting the support you need obviously reach out to us and we'll we'll step in

and make sure something gets figured out nice awesome um Liam you want to read that

one yep what influenced your your choice of suspension design so I think we touched on this a

little bit when we were talking about the history of the brand but we just it

was a platform that Mark and I knew really well and we had ridden a lot and

we had tried different things with that platform and we'd also had um Cascade

links for it um and so coming from bikes where we felt really comfortable we just

we didn't want to like create another unknown you know we were taking on a lot of unknowns and so

to have as many things that are trusted as you can I think you put yourself in a

better position to succeed so like even from down to the factory that we ended up working with right um I don't know

why but people in the industry probably don't even like me saying that so many

brands are made in the same Factory right yeah I mean I don't get when you learn about it there's not that

factories so there's not that many factories and so you know we're in one of the top factories that make you know

so many of the bikes that so many people out there are riding anyway um we're using their highest modulus carbon we're

using a platform that works like we're trying to like just eliminate uh questionable things that

are not tried and true right because there are already other things that we have to do that are not so the more of

those outliers we elim the the more chance we have of having a successful product for sure yeah it's like people

know the motor works people know the platform works you know I mean it's not like they're buying into a total unknown

uh suspension platform and motor whatever it's like you've got all these very reputable Brands you know in one

package that was our thought behind it yeah I think it works so and we it works like for us it works really well you

know nice there's there's definitely pros and cons to different suspension platforms um Al gives the flexibility of

the the travel adjust which you can't do as easily on others you know you can do some Geo stuff but so yeah that's nice

guess we can uh get into like the last question here where do you see ebikes going in the future next couple

years um I mean I think the obvious thing is they're going to get lighter and more

powerful which we're seeing already saw that with the DJI hinting towards that

yeah and so if to put my money down I feel like the SL bikes are either going

to get even lighter and more efficient themselves or

potentially there's going to be such a blurred line between those and the full power bikes that maybe you're not going

to see as many of them anymore I don't know because the light light ones are already pretty light right like if you

go to a TQ or something it's basically not that different to a regular bike yeah it's crazy that yeah some of them

are 36 lb and proper endur bik 36B yeah that is super impressive yeah so I mean

I don't I just I don't know about that category man um it's not necessarily a category I'm

super focused on but I also think that I'm being a bit selfish by having that

attitude but it's because I'm a bigger person right and you know for Liam to

ride a TQ mode is probably still cool for me to write it it's like I might as well just ride a regular bik you yeah I

wrote the TQ trying to keep Trevor on the DJI and I turn like literally XC and a

roll and he was he was he was seat bouncing bumps up Bill just having fun

and I was literally like 180 heart rate keeping up yeah yeah to me it was like I was on a dirt bike and Liam was on a

normal bike it's what it felt like I mean I am excited about Brands like DJI and I'm excited that they're pushing

like they are because all that's going to do is going to push these other brands to you know come to the party

right everybody knows these motors are capable of more more than what they're allowing us to get out of them and

that's obvious by even just looking at like a Tesla when you put it into ludicrous mode yeah you know it's like

they can all do more it just saps the battery right

so yeah I I've been quite surprised that some of the decisions for people that

are you know only offering 600 wat batteries in these Bosch systems because

hypothetically say they did at some point like they did on the last generation where it first came out it

was 75 then they bumped it up to 85 if they bump this one up it's going to use more battery people are going to want

the option of the bigger battery so yeah you know um but it's exciting you know

to see where the stuff's going to go they definitely Force couple other companies to kind of Step their game up

you know yeah exactly for sure exactly and are you married to using only boss systems moving forward or are you open

to see what the best system is for your bikes I'm to seeing what the best system is for the bikes I think I would be

doing our customers and our future customers a disservice by not checking everything out I've ridden the DJI bike

you know I'm I'm testing it I think the challenge with that for me is the timing

of it and the fact they brought out their own bike um and I don't know how

that's going to play out you know in the market where you technically it would be

like me buying motors from specialized yeah you know true so who knows who

knows how how it's going to go um but it is exciting to see the stuff and see what's possible you know and yeah like

takes a while to develop a bike so you know you have to just you know give it a

give it a bit of time see how these things play out and then make some decisions on what's next you know we've got this system that we're just

releasing now so um and it's good yeah so and there's pros and cons to either

right so um yeah I this this a tough one we just

got to keep trying all the different stuff and and like we chose Bosch in the beginning we chose it because it was

established they have a good history they have good support um it's a

cohesive system you know everything comes from Bosch it's not like you've got a battery coming from defang and

then a a motor coming from someone else and then if there's issues with one of those two things then people start

pointing fingers at each other it's like so it's nice that their system is a cohesive thing that you would get from

them so I like that already as well so yeah let's let's keep checking them out

nice sweet that's awesome exciting thank you uh for joining us it's been awesome

to hear just the whole background and for people who don't know like how cresline started and and it's yeah bikes

are amazing keep doing good work it's awesome yeah one of the questions was wasn't a question just said thanks for

making a badass bike just a comment thanks for making a badass bike it's a great bike um yeah everybody

thank you so much for listening we truly appreciate it if you are so inclined to leave us a review on your favorite

podcast platform screenshot it and send it to podcast worldwide cy.com we will

give you a gift card of $15 $15 to the website and yeah thank

you everybody so much thank you troen thanks for having me it was awesome to be here absolutely and we'll see you guys in the next one see you love you