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Special Guest: Revel Bikes Founder Adam Miller Talks 3D Printed Carbon Revel Rodeo, Bike Prices & Much More...Ep. 108 [Podcast]
Worldwide Cyclery YouTube Channel
A 3D Printed Downhill Bike With CBF Suspension?
Yup, you are reading that right. Revel Bikes is releasing its newest project bike, the Revel Rodeo downhill bike. A 200mm travel CBF suspension bike that is 3D printed from some of the world's most advanced 3D printing technology in Silicon Valley. We caught up with Adam from Revel Bikes and recorded a podcast where you can listen to Adam talk about the Rodeo in his own words. Working with Arevo Inc, Adam Miller (founder of Revel Bikes), Chris Canfield (Inventor of CBF) and Jordan Haffener (Revel Bikes Senior Engineer) set out to create a concept bike using new manufacturing methods and pushing the envelope of what can be done by not only manufacturing bike frames but also doing so in a more responsible manner. Concept bike you might ask? Yes. As in the car world, Revel is releasing this as a concept bike for now meaning it's not for sale just yet. One of the purposes is to test that this could be made on a bike platform that handles the most challenging riding out there. From the fastest riders in the world to the riders with the biggest huevos jumping down cliffs at Red Bull Rampage, a downhill bike has to withstand gnarly stuff. So while the Rodeo looks amazing, and I'm sure it rides even better, for now it's just a dream to come true down the road. Currently, with the manufacturing methods and the amount of engineering/programming time, this frameset would be extremely expensive. So if you have a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket, and I mean a lot of money, like Jeff Bezos money, then maybe get in touch and we can work something out.
Revel Bikes is not new to pushing the status quo of carbon manufacturing in the bike industry. Three years ago in 2020 (yeah, that feels weird to type), Revel released their own rims made from Fusion Fiber, the Revel RW30 Wheels. We have a whole article going in-depth about these wheels and how they are made, but in short, the rims are made from a thermoplastic using nylon as the “glue” holding the carbon fiber particles together. Not only is nylon a better material when it comes to environmental aspects, but unlike brittle epoxy, nylon has a more forgiving feel, giving you a smooth ride. In addition, Fusion Fiber has a much faster mold time with less heat, and maybe the best part of Fusion Fiber is it’s 100% downcycle-able. This means that if the rim breaks, it can be cut down into smaller pieces and re-made into smaller parts. Check out our video and article all about Revel’s RW30 wheels with Fusion Fiber.
Specs & Geometry:
The specs and geometry are what you would expect from a modern downhill bike. With 200mm of travel front and rear, 29” wheels front and rear, and a CBF suspension platform, this bike is ready to ride like a bucking bronco. The Rodeo is currently made in two sizes (hypothetically made?): S1 and S2. The S1 sports a reach of 448 while the S2 with 475mm and wheelbase numbers of 1266mm and 1293mm, respectively. Other notable numbers include a 443 chainstay length, a 62.7-degree head tube angle, and a 355mm bottom bracket height.
What's Worldwide's Takeaway?:
Having personally been to the Carbondale Rodeo with the Revel Bikes crew, it's certainly fitting that this USA-made downhill bike is named after their summer weekly tradition. As many who have ridden a downhill bike have had times where they thought they were riding a bull, the Revel Rodeo might be able to tame that trail like a true cowboy. Stoked is an understatement when we not only heard that Revel was creating a downhill bike but that it was made using advanced 3D printing technology that is combined with thermoplastics. It’s a true game changer in bicycle frame manufacturing and a look into the future. Faster prototyping, geometry changes or customization, less waste along with the possibility of being downcycled after the life of the bike. While purchasing the Rodeo is a few years down the road, working with a company that is not only looking to push the industry but looking for more environmentally friendly manufacturing methods is very exciting. To check out more on the Rodeo, head to Revel’s site.
If you're one strange human and would like to read a transcript of the podcast above, continue reading below!
Ladies and gentlemen welcome to episode 108 of the MTB podcast presented
and hosted by worldwide Cyclery on location in Sedona Arizona in a garage kind of
an Airbnb I am Jeff I'm Jared and I'm Liam and I'm Adam uh this podcast was a
little bit off the cuff we happened to be in Sedona for the mountain bike Festival uh it's snowing but we wanted
to record a podcast because we happen to be hanging out with Adam Miller the founder of Revel bikes he was on episode
92 of the MTB podcast it was one of the fan favorites we talked a lot about Revels founding, Adams history creating a
bike brand, Manufacturing in Asia, suspension platforms, a ton of stuff. what else do we talk about on that episode?
gosh we talked about how uh you broke your ankle right before the episode yeah
I think was on the table most of the time definitely swollen the episode had to be elevated it did end up getting
actually black and blue but he wasn't it was real it was not
ideal not ideal but uh we did talk about some bike stuff which would hopefully be useful and valuable and insightful and
interesting to you mountain bikers out there uh hopefully this episode airs uh this this whole thing is a little bit
Jerry rigged we got two separate laptops recording two separate mics a GoPro filming this this whole setup is we've
never done it before I have no idea if it's gonna work so that's all I got to say yeah so maybe this conversation will
just go down in history and stay in this Sedona garage hopefully people watching this on YouTube's like the bunk beds in
the back some nice bunk beds so let is uh let us let's let's dive
into some interesting things that happened at Revel lately uh Adam told us it was called a smush so the last time
you're on the podcast you talked about uh Why Cycles which was the you call it a sister brand to Revel I think is that
what you call was that what you considered yeah we've called it sister brand other company other brand two two
Brands Under One Roof is it titanium only mountain bike brand that kind of lived alongside Revel bikes which is a
carbon only mountain bike brand um and now you have so eloquently smushed them together
so it's the the proper business term was smushing so much together yeah so why
the Why Cycle's name will sort of be sunsetted and all of those titanium bikes will live on but they will just say Revel on them right correct yeah
nothing else well did you decide to like shove one bike under the rug during the process or no no actually all all the
bikes will will live on which was a hardtail a gravel bike
we have a like a 29er you know more standard hardtail um really versatile bike then we have a
29 plus hardtail called the the Wayward which is like a bike packing Adventure Overland type bike then we have a fat
bike called the Big Iron which is actually quite popular for us in the in the winter we're based out in Colorado
so we did you bring one here to the Sedona mountain bike Festival which ironically is covered in snow this year
we have about 42 demo bikes here and and the one bike we did not bring to Sedona
massive oversights oh man so yeah we would have done pretty well
if we if we had fat bikes here to demo in Sedona yeah that would be cool because the Sedona bike Festival which
was supposed to kick off officially on Friday right uh Rainer shine rain or shine and snow
but then it was canceled Friday um because it got Sedona got what eight inches of snow on Thursday yeah close to
a foot yeah we woke up so yeah you guys were already here we were ready to go do our our load in and get our demo Booth
set up and and you know start suck at people on bikes and we just uh you know press snooze and kept on sleeping and
there was nothing happening that day I think our Airbnb ran out of power for about 12 hours so we were sitting in the
house using a phone for a Wi-Fi hotspot to try to get our website all updated
and ready with this new brand smush that we did and wearing puffy coats it was an interesting day it's better now it's
gonna it's gonna be a fantastic yeah it'll turn around yeah turn around but yeah mud and snow and hopefully not
sticky mud but yeah perfect it'll be a good time regardless just our bike's gonna be involved TBD it's hard to say
it's a bike event but we might not actually ride bikes very much well we're talking about bikes so yeah
that's true we will talk about bikes regardless indeed a lot of stuff has happened at Revel so the smush so why
Cycles being sunsetted turning into Revel uh you guys also opened Taiwan facility that's that's some pretty cool
interesting news I know the last podcast we asked you a number of questions about Manufacturing in Asia and I've
personally learned a lot from you about that topic and your Insight and takeaway ways and just I feel like you're a lot
more open honest transparent candid about that which is cool because so I
mean what percentage of the bike industry is manufactured in Asia 97 at least yeah yeah 98 every bike that you
know we all ride and talk about is it's all made and yeah they do a phenomenal job making bikes yeah absolutely
um and it was it's just cool because you're a lot more open about it than most people kind of just try and neglect
or hide that for whatever various reasons but um tell us about the Taiwan facility what's what's going on there
yeah we're super excited we we now Revel bikes has a branch office is the
official term I believe for our own facility our own business in Taiwan uh
so we officially I guess you know opened it back in December um I'm getting on a plane here in a few
weeks to go back and and work there a little bit more but I absolutely love working in Taiwan
um it's this you know it's this island near China but totally separate from China and basically the island produces
bikes and computer chips and you know some other things too but that's what they're that's what the place is known for so Taichung Taiwan specifically is
kind of like the you know the Silicon Valley is for tech companies Taichung is
for bike companies and we have this facility there now it's actually it's it's a I'm just thrilled it's this
wonderful huge gigantic Warehouse that we can grow into and you drive down the street and you just see the headquarters
of all these major bike brands all within like 20 minutes every company just has their big office there whether
you know a lot of people manufacture there but a lot of it now more of the manufacturing has moved to countries
like China or Vietnam or Myanmar Cambodia even Bangladesh and India now
there's there's manufacturing taking place but the headquarters are usually still right there in Taiwan so you walk down
the street and it's like it's just crazy like you're in just like bike Mecca right there so now we have our own place
there and I'm quite excited about it yeah what what takes place there is it the actual manufacturing the assembly
just sort of the office of work like what happens what's going to happen in this facility well right now it's pretty
small so we have we have 32 people in Carbondale Colorado and then we have
four staff in Taichung Taiwan actually starting April one we're adding our
fifth person so we're starting to build out the team over there it'll be a little bit of everything so right now
it's it's frame assembly warehousing shipping Logistics we can you know do
all the boring you know supply chain stuff that I never thought I'd you know be learning about when I decided to
start a bike company is like that's been our life for the last years figuring out you know shipping consolidation and if
you you know bring in a product from Taiwan versus Vietnam and how the taxes work and the duties and then if you
combine it into a 20-foot container and we've 10 frames over here and then Tires over here then you know what does that
do to you know help make things more efficient as we're shipping products all over the world so
um I've gotten to learn a lot of things about supply chain and Logistics that I never knew existed but at the end of the
day if we can do all that stuff better that helps us you know have more resources to make more good bikes to get
more bikes and you know all over the world to help bring costs down eventually
um and a huge thing you know the part I'm really most excited about is the potential really everything we're doing
in our Taiwan facility with controlling our own assembly and sourcing will help make our bikes better and better so
we'll have all of our bikes all of our frames will be fully assembled by Revel employees at our facility in Taiwan and
then those frames will ship to Colorado where they get fully assembled into complete bikes or they'll ship to our
distributors in different countries all over the world a lot of other brands will do a similar
concept to us some do the exact same thing is us but a lot of them work with third-party assemblers in Taiwan or
China which is also a great way to do things but in my mind we're a pretty new company we're
actually we're celebrating our fourth birthday tomorrow here in Sedona nice nice so you
guys are yeah the Sedona bike Festival was the launch of Revel right we launched Revel four years ago uh
tomorrow at this event which is so it's kind of this is like a special event for us so and then here we're at year four
and we combined you know our y Cycles line into Revel so it's kind of a symbolic uh thing but we're we're
relatively new company in the big scheme of things and my goal was to set up all of our Logistics and facilities and
assembly and sourcing and Manufacturing processes to be able to scale into you
know really incredible you know high high high-end company that you know to make the best bikes we possibly can so
this facility is really a huge step in the right direction for better quality um uh better Logistics better costs so
that hopefully eventually we can even bring prices down in the future um so it kind of opens up a whole lot of
doors and I'm really excited about it yeah that's cool that I think that last thing you just said a lot of people's
ears were will perk up on because a lot of the a lot of the current comment trolls on the interwebs in the mountain
bike world are just complaining constantly about pricing uh obviously a
ton of Brands maybe every single brand raised prices during the pandemic when there was a huge amount of demand and a
lack of supply and a bunch of other issues with everyone's supply chain so
what just out of curiosity what is a kind of your take on that I mean it because to me it seems like that might
have got a little bit out of hand but it was also economically reasonable behind the scenes which a lot of people don't
have insight into because they're all private companies on the other side of it too um you know how much better can bikes
really get they're they're pretty amazing and so I think one of the next Innovations is making them more sustainably but also maybe also trying
to find ways to get them at better price points for what you get what's your
what's your take on this could not agree more I think it's pretty ridiculous how expensive bikes are and I realize I'm
saying that as the owner of a bike company that sells very expensive bikes but we've actually gotten feedback when
we first launched back in 2019 everyone kind of said why why are your frames so
cheap and I said well their price where they should be but it was all it was like well if your bikes aren't priced the same as you know some of our
competitors it's almost like a problem so that was kind of a weird thing but um
no I I mean I I often say uh you know business gets in the way of bikes a
whole lot and we're all in the business of bikes and so it's kind of a fun a funny thing to to balance those two
things that most of us are in in this line of work because we love bikes and we're super passionate about bikes we
decided to start you know get get into this as a as a career um and then you know at the same time it's a business so
uh I feel pretty lucky at the end of the day that my job gets to be my my fun uh
but doing things like raising prices during covet was not uh not one of the more enjoyable parts of my job uh some
companies when when really aggressive with price increases um we did two different price increases during covet
and it was crazy it was some of the more heated conversations in our conference room was how to increase prices and we
we had to um looking back on it I think we uh we probably should have been a little
bit more aggressive with price increases uh you know simple things shipping and
you know this is the same whether it's the bike industry or all kinds of other Industries but you know the rough metrics were basically for the last I
don't know 10 or 20 years or something in the Bike World it cost about four thousand dollars to ship a 20-foot
container from Taiwan or China to the United States and that would fluctuate
by a couple hundred dollars even before coveted we'd always look at that stuff and you know hi if we could get a container for four thousand instead of
forty three hundred dollars you know let's make 10 phone calls and try to figure out how to do that because that's good business
and then covet happened and containers went to five thousand and seven thousand I remember when they hit eight thousand
dollars and we were all thinking oh my you know containers just doubled in cost this is wild then it hit twelve thousand
and we all thought there's no way shipping could get more expensive they went up to twenty four thousand dollars to bring a container in
um a container will fit about 220 frames depending on how you package it so you do the math and that's a you know a few
hundred dollars per per frame um you know add up all the other parts that go in there and just shipping alone
was you know a massive massive price increase in a very short period of time let alone all the other raw material
price increases that were going on so you know all these companies that were raising prices during covid um
from what I saw from everything over you know from the entire supply chain it was very very Justified now we we raise
prices and we said hey anybody who has an order in the you know who has already placed an order even if they ordered a
bike for six months away or nine months away we said great we're still going to honor that original pricing that you got
so we actually kind of just ate it we ate all that extra shipping costs for you know a very long period of time
which you know we're a younger smaller company and we want to do the right things I think that's better for the long run but a lot of other companies
didn't do that they just said uh tomorrow you got to pay 15 more for everything and that's I don't think
that's the right way to do stuff either but you know now things are much more mellow
with the global supply chain shipping costs have for the most part come back down to normal they're not quite there
yet but they're they're much closer so um I think now companies can start folk
instead of putting all these resources towards supply chain and shipping companies can now focus more on R D and
development and how to you know make the actual products uh less expensive or better or a combination of the two and
hopefully that means the next few years bikes can hopefully get cheaper
and now a word from our sponsors quick note middle of the podcast Liam Jared
and I are going on one epic trip to the Dolomite mountains in Italy this
September uh there is only three spots available on this trip it's a guided trip that's going to be put on by all
Mountain rides this was a company that put together a mountain bike tour that I went on back in 2019 in New Zealand and
it was the most fun mountain bike trip I've ever been on in my life this guy Phil who runs these trips is absolutely
world class if you want to go the link is in the show notes there's three spots available uh it's going to be amazing
September Italy ride mountain bikes with myself Jared and Liam Jared are you excited yes probably more excited about
trip than I've been uh in a long time yes I'm excited
yeah I am over the moon excited I can't wait to ride bikes with all my friends and meet new friends on this trip boom
and now back to the show all right more news uh we've got a couple cool things
to talk about with you remaining Adam well one really important thing which we're gonna drop this podcast on March
14th which is the day you were going to announce the rodeo downhill Bike by
Revel yeah but you're calling it a concept bike concept but I go wow are you are you
Honda or what are you yeah we're a car this is the auto show
the new Revel bikes and cars yeah that's a joke that's not happening
we're not a car company no we're gonna stick with bikes it's funny because it's a concept bike but it's not electric
there's no motor and there's no motor so it's called the Rodeo it's a full-blown downhill bike and it's got some crazy
things going on give us the give us the skinny yeah I'm pretty excited about this one it is a very different product
launch than we've ever done before because the bike is not for sale so we
have good luck in the comments yeah probably yeah great great for
business too our finance team loves this one yeah exactly we made a bike that
we're not going to sell yeah uh we're we we did make a bike that we're not gonna sell we're calling it a concept bike
similar to you know a lot of car companies come out with cool new things they're trying and experimenting and
just kind of show off because why not it's fun it's fun yeah it's cool it's interesting it's interesting very
futuristic and pretty cool to talk about so I'm excited to talk about it here on this podcast we
um made a downhill bike that is 3D printed thermoplastic made in America and it
uses the CBF suspension platform so it kind of checks a whole lot of boxes of pretty pretty cool stuff in in my mind
uh from both a product standpoint and uh but really how it's made
um and really what that means for the future of how bikes could be made
um as this technology advances 3D printed thermoplastic
downhill bike wow
I'm just gonna go back to making bikes so this bike's 3D printed thermoplastic
so your guys's wheels are also made out of a similar material but it's not 3D
printed correct okay yep yeah so so thermoplastic is is is a type of
composite so traditional well basically our bikes all carbon bikes that you see
out there we call them carbon bikes but it's uh it's a thermoset carbon and that means it's uh carbon fibers with uh
epoxy resin and epoxy is the the curing agent the bonding agent to glue all those fibers together and make a really
strong material thermoplastic is also a composite carbon but it does not use epoxy for the curing
agent it uses a plastic a nylon pa6 or a pa-12 or a peak or a pick or all sorts
of other really fancy versions of that um and it's kind of the new wave in
Composites uh you know Boeing Airbus all these you know big big companies are using thermoplastics because of uh well
for all sorts of reasons uh it's it's a it's a stronger material it has better impact resistance but really the the
biggest benefit uh I think is the manufacturer processes and the efficiencies you can gain traditional
thermoset carbon requires a whole lot of human labor most of that is done in Asia
our bikes are made in Asia as are just about everything every other bikes out
there um thermoplastic allows for a whole lot more kind of Freedom with how things are
made so our Fusion fiber wheels are made in Utah with the very robotic manufacturing process things are cut out
with robots the material is laid up uh robotically so there's no human error in
there you can make a much more consistent product it goes into a mold it's it's cured in about 20 seconds
rather than 45 minutes so there's a whole lot less energy that goes into making those products so it's a more
environmentally friendly manufacturing process it's much cleaner epoxy is full
of all sorts of bad chemicals that people can breathe in and you know it could could leak into the environment
and epoxy is kind of the bad part of of traditional carbons so thermoplastics have a whole lot of really cool benefits
um and they're also they can be recycled a whole lot easier so our wheels are fully recyclable we have a full process for
how that material gets uh recycled uh really down cycled and it can be turned into all sorts of other products so we
were the first company to launch these uh Fusion fiber thermoplastic wheels back in 2020 we actually also launched
those right around this time of year and showed them off at the Sedona bike fest for the first time so this is a special
event for us we have a YouTube video all about those wheels just a note it's a good one
Jared just laughing at me that saves me going into all the yeah yeah if you really want to know more about those uh
we myself Jared Liam we spent a lot of time riding those wheels and enjoying those wheels made a whole YouTube video about them because it was interesting
um just the manufacturing process was cool so so that yeah and those Wheels got us excited because they're they're
just awesome in so many different ways and it kind of opens up this whole new world for how to make cool stuff whether
it's bikes or airplanes or anything so we started looking at other thermoplastic options and a few years
ago I discovered a factory called arivo based out in California and they had
developed technology to 3D print thermoplastic uh and so I reached out to
them and we started a relationship but I said I want to make a bike with you guys I think this seems really cool we have
some pretty neat ideas for bike design we use the CBF suspension system I wanted to make a downhill bike I can go
into kind of the backstory a little bit more uh and they were amazing they said yeah let's do it this hasn't been done before uh and let's try it out so we got
a really cool partnership with this Factory that has all sorts of crazy technology and we work together to
create uh the world's first 3D printed full suspension bike and it was actually
a downhill bike with CBF suspension so I thought it was pretty cool so what is the reason behind concept
bike the idea because everyone's just gonna be oh why is it available why can't I buy it so the the reason is it's
not quite ready to ride just yet it's like a thing if there's you have photos of it videos of it but it's not quite
perfect correct okay it's not ready to sell the technology is not there yet I
think it will be in the next I don't know if it's one or two years or three or four years it's hard to say
yeah um it has a ton of promise if we were making a road bike and actually uh this Factory did make some some more
Road oriented products it's there it's ready to go um where we're at right now is it it
would be ready to sell the next few months if price was not a factor um it's way too expensive today to sell
this bike uh but it has the promise to be very
reasonably priced you know on par with current bikes and in the future getting getting even lower cost than current bikes with scale because the material
and the Machine time makes sense right now it's so new there's so much engineering time that needs to go into
programming the machine showing how that 3D print head actually puts the fibers
down where those carbon fibers go and so you got a team of really really smart Engineers working on this stuff and
um that's the part that's expensive right now so we figured you know what this is going to be a a good bit longer
until it's ready to bring to the market and actually sell it let's show it off as a concept bike let's show off what we've been working on it's kind of cool
it's fun to talk about and I get excited about what it means for the future of how bikes are made yeah let's just let's
just run a hypothetical here uh I'm not Jeff Kaley I'm Jeff Bezos and I want to buy it because I got plenty of money
I look good on your yacht yeah it's gonna look good on one of my Yachts on the sea sucker on his rivian yeah that's
you know yeah what's this gonna cost me 20 grand more than a rivian
80 grand you know so I don't like your logic of the bike is still more than the
car pans out totally you know I think I purposely haven't done the math to
figure out what it was because I know it's just so expensive um but it's way too expensive yeah no I
mean I I think it's a smart move for you to say hey this is a concept bike this technology let me tell you all about it
it's really interesting uh as opposed to saying like this is our new bike it's sixty thousand dollars
you'll get it in two years probably yeah sixty thousand dollars and you'll get it in two to six years yeah thousand dollar
deposit you know kind of like that's a good plan copy everything that car companies do yeah so that's just the
concept car we'll do the deposit thing yeah so I imagine it's not just your average 3D printer that you know anybody
can buy that that does this it is highly proprietary Terry and that's where I
felt very lucky to partner up with ariva because it's their technology they invented how this 3D print head lays
down thermoplastic carbon fibers into a structurally strong shape and that's
that's a huge step in the right direction for making all types of different products for all types of
different Industries but no and it is not at the point where someone could buy 3D printer on on you
know yeah a different situation it appears totally
but I mean it's cool because you guys were the first company launched launched these wheels with the fusion fiber you
know this thermoplastic uh type of wheel and I kind of the first bike brand to
release this at least to the public right um even though it's not for sale you guys the first one to show that
you're working on it and you guys can make a bike and it is rideable it's just
not feasible to buy currently yeah yeah exactly so I mean for ice you know I I
started this business because I love making bikes and figuring out how to make them and you know one of the things I have the most fun with is just okay we
have a concept we have an idea now let's go make it and I've gotten to travel all over the world to China and Taiwan and
Vietnam and working these factories uh to make bikes and so it's always fun to figure out new ways to make things and
in my mind I don't want to just be a bike company that comes out with a product just because there's some market
share to be had or because we think we can just you know sell X number of them you know we want to make a product
because we care about it and we think we can do some things maybe a little bit better than some other brands and a lot
of that comes down to frame features like you know geometry or you know suspension kinematics but a huge part of
it for me comes down to how that product is actually made and that's where the fusion fiber wheels or this 3D printed
process are really exciting to me so this is a total passion project for our company it
was pretty fun to go you know hop on an airplane and fly to uh you know Milpitas
and and Silicon Valley to get to go make a bicycle you know that's not normal
um and we got to do it so we learned a ton and I think that's what's just as exciting about this project it's we made
it knowing there is a lot of risks we made it we didn't say okay we have a 18 month development time and we're going
to start selling this on you know March 14 and this is going to be the you know dollars and ever you know we just said
hey we're going to try this and if it works out fantastic if it doesn't work out we will have
learned a whole lot in the process and we just decided to let's show off what we were doing because
bikes are fun at the end of the day yeah I I admire you guys just being
honest and transparent and and showing how this thing is made what's going on who's doing what and I don't know making
it a concept bike because I can't recall anyone ever saying this is a concept we might come out with this one day yeah
nobody does that in the bike lane well our team spent a lot of time on it our our engineering team put hundreds and
hundreds and hundreds of hours into this thing um and designed this beautiful phenomenal bike and so I think it's
pretty cool to kind of show it off to say like hey this is this is awesome like
yeah and it's actually well and we haven't talked much about how it's a it's a downhill bike
um which to me is kind of half the fun that we it probably would have been easier
for us to you know make a bike say uh you know all mountain or Enduro bike uh
that maybe had lower testing standards than a bike made to go do Red Bull Rampage and do backflips and all sorts
of crazy stuff but the idea was hey one we wanted a downhill bike too let's make the most difficult bike we can because
to prove this type of manufacturing this this concept let's make a bike that people are going
to do crazy stuff on and if we can do that then we know we can apply the the technology to other products so maybe it
was more expensive and slower and whatever in the beginning but to me that's a good long-term plan for really learning um learning about a new
material learning about a new manufacturing process but the the downhill bike concept or just the idea for making a downhill bikes uh
started back in it was 2019 um we went to an outer bike in
Bentonville Arkansas and Chris Canfield came with us because Chris Canfield invented CBF canceled balance formula
the suspension patent that we use on our bikes and that we and he is a legitimate downhill racer and that was uh his
original passion so that's why I was the most excited to be like oh it's a downhill bike with CBF
yeah yeah I mean speaking of videos we have a full video on the CBF suspension platform
um with Chris Canfield yeah Chris Canfield's in it and he explains a lot of it in that video and uh yeah he is
he's kind of a a serious downhill guy first an Enduro guy second I would say um I don't know maybe maybe that's wrong
but I'm pretty sure that's right oh yeah yeah he and he has a he has a World Cup jersey yeah yeah no he's he's a
legitimate town he's really fast he just just won Masters World champs
yeah like a year or two ago yeah so to see a CBF downhill bike I was like oh
and then oh this crazy 3D printed thing made in California well we're gonna go ride with Chris
Canfield tomorrow so yeah it'll be fun to try to chase him good it's on Jeff
I'm not so I mean yeah before we even launched the Revel brand Chris Canfield
was like all right when are you making a downhill bike what are you making yeah like I'm sure and and uh I had you know
we launched with two models in a kind of all-mountain bike and an Enduro bike uh but Chris was just couldn't wait for us
to make it down whole like so we're sitting we were at The Cider bike event to show off the bikes back you know early on like six months after we
launched the company and Chris was there to you know help you know talk to you know show off the bikes and talk about CBF and it rained like uh the most rain
I've ever seen ever so they shut down out our bike which is really similar to here today I sit on a bike fast for a
snow to foot and so we were sitting in this coffee shop in in Bentonville with nothing to do and Chris said all
right let's let's talk about this downhill bike and we sat there and he you know Drew out the suspension
kinematics in this coffee shop and said here you go like let's you know that's
the most epic thing to do that's amazing yeah when was last time you just drew out suspension kinematics in a coffee
shop shirt well I wouldn't tell you because my all of my kinematic drawings are secret you
have to sign a non-discipline yeah
looking at the bike uh when this podcast goes live we will have a article as well
on our website with photos of this bike but it looks pretty pretty rad it looks
good looks good it looks really good yeah yeah yeah Chris did a great job and we did a
couple neat things um there's mounts for two water bottles two small water bottles to be fair uh a
fidlock or the the smaller bottle size which is also good for suspension testing data
absolutely a lot of download bikes have those mounts for yep yeah you can mount all sorts of stuff you can carry your you know spare
tube or tools or whatever and there's just a lot of room there the suspension kinematics are pretty neat Chris uh was
quite excited about this layout uh CBF really Shines on long travel bikes it
does so good at just tracking the ground and the kind of the uh underrated part
of CBF in my mind is the breaking characteristics when you go grab your back brake a lot of suspension systems
will sort of push you over the bars or pull you down or lock up the rear wheel so you don't get as much traction as
you're going over bumpy terrain and Chris has done an incredible job with the CBF system of really disengaging the
braking forces from the suspension so as you get into longer travel on a downhill bike you notice that
even more I want to buy it now well it'll look
great on your yacht next to Jeff Mason would look really good there ah it looks so good it looks so good I'm
waiting for this company yacht that's what I'm talking about right now I think we're gonna need to sell some other
things we have a company raft that raffle um that's pretty close to uh it's a little smaller it's uh inflatable I've
personally had a really good time on that company yacht same here yeah we've all had some great times on that yeah
um why don't you name that raft yacht that's a good idea what was it I think it was the first time we visited Revel
we actually went on your guys's raft in the river then you mean yeah yeah I mean yeah yeah yeah yeah the company I think
it was about 100 degrees outside so we didn't really want to go biking so we did a short mountain bike ride and then
we just went on a raft and then we went perfect and then we went to the local bar until
shut down it was a great time that was a good trip that was a good
Colorado trip yeah that was my favorite business trip we should do that again this summer yeah we we well what was the
situation there we we went to we flew into Grand Junction the plan was to go to Revel to hang out with Adam talk to
the guys we were super we're gonna film some stuff I'm not quote inclusive things we
were supposed to actually work and then we just did a quick mountain bike ride did a raft trip and then went to a rodeo
and then drank too much stayed up too late and we were supposed to well yeah we were supposed to film but we had to
go to Crest to be like the next day yeah and then we went to a chasing end because we were out so late we overslept
mainly Jeff overslept uh waking up early we're supposed to like film the next day which was that wasn't going to be good
for anything so then we ended up having to book it to uh Crested Butte we did our
chasing epic shipping Crest debut and then we had to add another day onto that trip I think to come back to Revel to
actually do the work we were supposed to do that several days prior yeah business trips in the bike Industries
rough super rough yeah well and and our downhill bike is named the rodeo in
large part because of the rodeo that we all went to yeah I've never been to a rodeo until that it was the first rodeo
no never yeah well this this bike looks rad
um what do you think in terms of so you're calling it a concept bike it could come out in several years from now but what do you what do you think in
terms of all bike brands making components and especially the frame out of more
sustainable more cost effective more efficient processes is that kind of like the overall end goal here because that's
that's personally what I would like to see absolutely I mean that that's what's so exciting about this and the fact that
we get to work towards that call that goal and at the same time make a downhill bike
to me that's pretty pretty fun I mean that's pretty cool um more more sustainable more cost
effective um you know made whether it's made in America or made in Asia in my mind whatever makes the best product where
you know the people are proud to make those products they're treated well it's more environmentally friendly if we can do all those things a little bit better
it's me that's that's a huge win at the end of the day yeah um so what's what's really cool too about
this 3D printing process the thermoplastic alone is just incredible I mean all sorts of yes we're going to see
more bikes and more components made out of this material has an excellent ride characteristics excellent impact
resistance um and the environmental and cost benefits are there and will certainly
improve over time as the technology improves but what's neat about this 3D printing part of it to me is what it means for the future so theoretically
this this bike is made with no molds so normal thermoset carbon frame requires a gigantic expensive heavy set of Steel
usually steel molds and so you design your geometry you make your molds and
that's what the bike is with 3D printing you don't need a mold there's no costs costs to set things up so theoretically
in the not too distant future we could make this downhill bike and let's just say either a sponsored athlete or a customer
or one of us said you know what I like the geometry you came up with but instead of a 475 millimeter reach I want
a 478 millimeter reach high by downhill bike our Engineers could go in make some adjustments to the model press print and
it would go get printed and so you could make a custom geometry or custom kinematic
carbon fiber bike and to me that's pretty cool yeah that's really cool yeah and just to
clarify that's like the way current carbon bikes are made with the mold is not at all possible you'd have to open
up a whole new mold which is thousands and thousands then instead of costing uh
80 grand it would be 250 it would be a little more 250 Grand to get you a
custom Geo bike Jeff Bezos might buy one daddy Bezos dude come on let's go you'll
buy that maybe that's why he doesn't mount bike it's it's too cheap for him we just cracked the code yeah we need to
make the lights that are expensive and more expensive yeah yeah new Mission exactly
oh man I can't stop thinking about daddy Bezos and what he's what he's thinking about right now so please probably not
bikes but hopefully maybe bikes yeah probably not I could be wrong maybe he does ride bikes I don't
know doesn't look like it though he's pretty yoked yeah that's kind of an HGH yeah whatever else the other
anti-aging drugs all those billionaires are into these days yeah it seems nice Fountain of Youth yeah so I have a
question Adam um yes Liam right now your the rims the Revel rims
um are made in the USA and or in Utah uh with this thermoplastic is this
thermoplastic technology at all uh being found or made in Asia currently
yep it is yeah and we've actually experimented with a few places over there too so
um yeah I I love the global economy I think it's really cool to go to different
different places different countries different cultures and and work with different people uh you know everybody
has has different strengths and I think that's pretty pretty fun to explore um in my mind you know we we make
products and and a few in Colorado but Utah California Taiwan China Vietnam and
in my mind that's just super fun like that's a super fun part of my job we work with just fantastic
people that really care about what they're doing I'm really proud of the factories that we that we do work with in in all these places
um most of the thermoplastic uh exploration and research and development
is taking place right here in America uh the it's there's quite a few you know
really really Innovative things going on with the 3D printing or with the robotic manufacturing there's a lot of stuff
going on in Europe as well um but there are a few factories as well in Taiwan and in China that are looking
into this it's it's a logical next step in Composites Evolution for all Industries and there's loads of money
being poured into this by you know companies slightly bigger than the bike industry in our companies you know
Boeing and Airbus and and are are doing a lot with thermoplastic so because of that there's tons of innovation going on
and to me it's pretty cool that we can kind of you know slot into some of these factories that are making parts for you
know an Airbus Jet and here we are making you know some bike parts over in the corner it's it's kind of neat
wow super neat yeah that's cool can't wait if you choose bright hopefully we'll get
you a downhill bike soon Jeff that would be nice I'll try my best I just recently have been riding a longer travel bike
than I've ridden in a long time I'm kind of addicted to the Revel Ranger like that's just what I ride all the time and
then I'm now running a little bit longer travel bike I'm like hey these are pretty fun
it's weird I forgot about this I honestly thought that I was like I forgot about this this is pretty sack
hold on it it kind of does a lot you can do a lot well maybe you know trying to
bring a longer travel bike to Whistler yeah I will bring two bikes two bikes
Ranger the rodeo Ranger on the rodeo I'm gonna pay 250 grand for the rodeo you're gonna ride a ranger
you're gonna be a really good investment I'm gonna go to the Wells Fargo and ask for a 250 000 loan to buy a bicycle
it'll make that day at Whistler really fun [Laughter] so worth it so worth it I'll just
befriend you episodes and figure it out from there that's smarter we could all do that yeah then we could make this bike maybe a little faster
oh it's amazing all right well Adam uh if if people want to bug you with a couple other Revel questions are you
willing to tell them your personal Instagram handle so they can be like hey man how did you get your uh colors yeah tell
me about CBF and then you can just send them a link to a cvf video that we made that you guys made you guys I think have
explained CBF better than we have explained so you have so well absolutely I mean honestly that's what we're I'm
glad to hear you say that because we we try to do that we we try to find a way to uh actually Liam coined this it was
uh what was it it was it was sort of advanced writer approved but digestible
by the novice Rider something you said it actually way better than that but it was I'm impressed I said that
you said something really good one day and I actually put in I put it in our YouTube channel description because like
actually that makes a lot of sense because demystifying the world of mountain bike is that it it was further down the description because I I wanted
uh I thought that was really good that you said that one time I was like oh I'm gonna put that in YouTube description because we try to make our YouTube
videos sort of the beginning of them the first half of them be a lot more sort of
high level and digestible by the novice Rider and maybe someone who's not super nerdy into the bike industry and bikes
in general and then the latter half of them be a little bit more nerdy and hopefully give you the Viewpoint of a of
a true like long-term mountain biker industry person um I don't know so I I try to structure
our content to sort of progressively go that direction um makes sense in the beginning
to where it makes sense for the novice Rider and then progressively slide into uh actually makes a lot of sense for
that like super bike industry nerd whatever well that's a huge reason I like working with you guys because we
get so you know laser focused looking at our computers whether it's engineering or suspension kinematics or supply chain
or yeah a lot of companies they're just like so into the cad models and SolidWorks and so it's harder for us to
you know how do we talk about that well we're just looking at you know is the anti-rise you know 102 or yeah like who
cares like like we just want to make a good bike but well a few people care but 97 other people don't exist so you can
help us you can help explain that but those 97 other people do want to bike
that rides well yeah yeah everyone cares about something they just need to hear it in a certain way that makes sense to
them yeah right and then to go on your point along with the way we structure our content the third tier of that is we
always have an accompanying article on our website yeah also good goes even deeper into the nerd specks and all that
stuff that you can also read and look at photos as well so and I love looking at the nerd specs that's fantastic I do too
yeah that's because you guys are those guys we're the Nerds you guys are those guys that's us Michael over here
monitoring the GoPro he just wants to watch the first half of the YouTube video and get the gist right get a good
bite yeah yeah he just wants the good bike he just wants a good bike everybody wants a good bike nobody wants a bad
bike yeah yes if you want to ask me questions on my personal Instagram I
believe it's Adam dot miller907. what's 907 year old motocross
race number what is that I wasn't that cool no it's it's I'm from Alaska originally it's the Alaska area codes
one of those States has one area code for the whole state so yeah that's wild I'm actually to think about that is
impressive it's not a big well it's a big state not a lot of people yeah uh yeah ask away happy to check cool yeah I
I always tell people that you know if people want to hit me on in personal Instagram myself Jared lamb we all kind of divulge our personal Instagrams and
say like I mean not that many people are gonna abuse it at least at this size we're we've been all right so far right
yeah yeah not too bad manageable I usually do uh voice dictation replies
while I'm on the toilet that's how I reply to all my Instagram messages that's efficient that's a good idea 100
dude I'm all about efficiency you want to talk about efficiency I'll talk to you about efficiency you're the expert
yeah on most things yeah I'm getting ready in the morning
I would rather just lounge around get ready slow have two cups of coffee and ride at 11 30. how about brushing your
teeth I've thought about all that well okay just real quick before we end this podcast I have thought about so what I
do when I brush my teeth I do a hip flexor stretch because there's basically only one other thing you can multitask while brushing your teeth properly and
it's stretching stretching of some kind for me it's hip flexors they get tight when you sit flexor when I brush my top
teeth and then right hip flexor when I brush my bottom teeth um yeah and I do the the full round and
I switch it stretch to hit flexors and so I got it perfect and then you get at least so two minutes in the morning of
hip flexor stretch and two minutes in the evening flexor stretch do you think that if you brushed your teeth twice as
fast you could save half the time so you know now we're getting even deeper into
this I I did do that yeah I tried to brush my teeth yeah yeah I tried to
brush my teeth Ultra fast and I actually got gum recession I was like damaging my gums because as I was brushing my teeth
so fast it's too aggressive with your gums why I was you should and my dentist was like
you gotta have that gum replaced now you've just botched the one in the back and I had to get uh material or flesh
removed from the top of my mouth really and grafted into my gum yeah so that's
such a thing is too efficient yeah yeah exactly yeah two efficient slash too
aggressive so I'm I'm much more gentle with my tooth brushing now I go the full two minutes of proper pace and I stretch
my hip flexors at the same time realistically and listen to a podcast 17 minutes is you know marginal you you
should do it traveling with Jeff you do learn some stuff and I have personally
implemented a few things from traveling with Jeff into my life and one of them is a hip flexor stretch while brushing
teeth yeah at least stretch something while you're brushing if you travel you're sitting either in a plane or a car and then you need a stretcher hip
flexors after that what better time to do and then brushing your teeth it's a good lesson learned even men made a
plane ride you know long plane rides I'll just get up in the aisle step the hip stretch stretch it out flexors
lesson learned yeah yeah so in a few in a few weeks we'll be doing that yeah we're going we're going to go on a good
trip in a few weeks yep yep Liam's going to Taiwan uh on behalf of Trail one and tagging along with the Revel crew I
can't wait yeah I need help I've been I've been telling Liam to train and drink more sake and have other things
and really drinks I haven't done any of it I'm currently drinking and I don't often
do that so that's something so we'll get him another one after this and we'll keep training you we'll keep we'll keep
practicing we'll get ready for the trip we're gonna have a good time we're gonna go to a bunch of factories we're gonna see stuff how stuff's made we're gonna go to the Taipei show it's going to be I
can't wait yeah that's right I'm really stoked it's cool so we're gonna make bikes see how bikes are made yeah good luck
Jared and I will be drinking pina coladas in Maui do you like pina cola
if you have listened this far thank you very much we genuinely appreciate it uh if you have any questions you want us to
answer on the podcast please email them to podcast worldwidecyclery.com and Jared himself
uh we'll answer read those read them yeah and he'll put them in the question
doc if they're Worthy or if you just need uh help with a I
don't know a certain component selection or or bike Choice then then maybe I'll just reply and I'll give you my two
cents yeah that too and we're all available on Instagram and happy to continue answering listener questions as we do on
the normal podcast although this one we head at them so thank you Adam for uh taking time out of your day to come to
our Sedona converted garage Airbnb with bunk beds in the background which you can see on YouTube if you're watching
right now uh or humble abode and at least but not last as Jared has coined
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