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Jeff Finally Wins a Race, Treasure Hunt Recap, MTB Upgrades & More… Ep. 160 [Podcast]
Today on the podcast, Jeff, Liam & Trevor chop it up over some epic recent rides and adventures before recapping the KETL Treasure hunt 2.0 and jumping into some classic listener questions ranging from bike choice while traveling to all sorts of bike upgrades and everything in between. Tune in!
Worldwide Cyclery YouTube Channel
Submit any and all questions to podcast@worldwidecyclery.com.
If you are one strange human that would like to read a transcript of the podcast above, continue reading below!
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 160 of the Mountain Bike Podcast. I'm Jeff.
Welcome to the podcast, Jeff. I'm Liam. And I'm Trevor. Sorry that you do not hear the olive oil
voice of Jared. He is currently still on vacation. So, it's just us three this time around. And we're going to talk
about the Kettle Treasure Hunt 2.0. Recap our time in Bend, Oregon this past
weekend. my quote unquote short adventure race and listener questions ranging from upgrading pads and rotors
to our advice on shorter cranks and everything in between. I think I messed the intro up a little
bit. I haven't done one in a long time. Yeah, that's all right. That's why I said welcome back to the podcast. Say you're you're going to be the you're
going to be the guest this time. Yeah. Yeah. I I was going to be like, "Yep, I'm Liam and I used to have a new guest with us, Jeff
Kayley. Welcome to the podcast, Jeff." Oh, all right. Well, close enough. Uh,
Zach's words of wisdom, which just says Liam's. So, what? He didn't want to bug him on his honeymoon.
No. Yeah, that's he Yeah, he'd probably say something obscene right now cuz he's in Mexico.
So, yeah, he's in Mexico actually on his honeymoon. Well, today is literally his birthday the day of recording. Yeah.
Yeah. Happy birthday, Zach. Happy birthday, Zach. Happy birthday, Zach. Uh Liam filled in for your words of wisdom and he says,
"Bes don't bother to tell flies that honey is better than poo. Yep.
Use a different word at the end there. Close enough. That's one of my personal words of wisdom.
Don't basically means like don't stoop lower than what you need to like don't don't associate yourself with people who
are not good or Yeah. Or like you know if you like something then just keep doing it cuz you like it. Yeah.
You don't got to tell everyone else that Mhm. to come join you or whatever. It's just what you
you don't need to preach on what you think is good. Yeah. Exactly. Because maybe to the flies the poo is better. It could be. Yeah, but I prefer honey.
Uh Trevor, what is Daniel's fun fact? Daniel's fun fact, there's a lake in Australia that's bubblegum pink, and
Lake Hillier stays bright pink year round. Scientists think it's due to a mix of algae, bacteria, and high salt
levels. I would not go in that lake. I feel like people know that one. Haven't you ever seen that? It's kind of
a famous thing. And it was I' probably seen like stuff about something like that, but I
would have thought it was like a weird mine run off or something like that, but that's cool. Oh, wo. That thing is very pink.
Just look at some photos of it. Yeah, it's full-blown bubble gum. Literally looks like bubblegum pink. And
it looks like it's it's like right on the coast, too, which is odd.
Huh. Uh, fantastic testimonials. This was a
Google review, which I thought was hilarious. Worldwide Cyclinger is always my go-to place for bike parts. They have great prices and super fast shipping,
and they seem like real cool people. So, if they're actually bots, they're using amazing bots that have completely
convinced me that they are actually human beings with a sense of humor who also ride bikes. We are great bots.
I thought that was a pretty good review. I'm sure the bots are actually getting super good, but we are actual actual human beings who care, which is good.
It is funny now when you can tell you get AI replies from things. Oh yeah. I saw a uh a headline this morning that
Will Smith had a like a music video or something or a concert advertisement and
all the people were AI and fake and it was kind of obvious. Well, I saw one that people are saying
that the crowd was AI. Yeah, that's I don't know if they know 100%. Well, a lot of people are going to get confused by that, but the crowd was for
sure AI. Like some of the words are wrong or are you fake news and fake news? Yeah. So you're giving news about unverified
news. I mean it could be unverified. I saw that makes it unverified if you have no idea what is verified anymore. I don't
know. There's still things that happen in real life that are true. Yeah. We can't just not trust anything.
Yep. Have to trust some things even if they're about Will Smith AI concert goers. Oh man. Okay. Bikes and rides
we've been enjoying lately. Liam. Uh I'm I'm on a little bit of a bike break. Uh
I've ridden a few times. I've been riding my Banshee with Shimano stuff. Trying to get that
dialed in and and feeling good. Banshee Titan V3. Banshee Titan V3 with Shimano XT
DI2M8200. Jeez, the naming convention. You sound like a robot there.
Yeah, right. Sound like an AI AI bot. But yeah, I'm trying to get that dialed in. It's like all different parts and
I've ridden for the past like multiple years. So, Shimano brakes are touchy. Radial tires feel different on a bike
I'm not used to. Gio the Banshee I'm trying to get used to. Was that the first time you rode those radial tires?
Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's on like a new bike with Oh, you got you messed up all your variables for a scientific.
There's there's zero variables. Like you just did new bike. It's definitely going to take way longer
to get used to. Have you have you gotten kind of used to it or you still still figuring it out? Yeah, I bet.
Yeah, like it does feel good. It's just like it also feels hesitant.
You're still thinking about it too much as you're riding. Yeah, you want to not not be thinking. Yeah. So, I might just throw some access
on for the time being. I feel like that'll eliminate a big aspect of that. Um, and I did swap the pads. Per the
Shimano guys recommendation. I went to resin pads and I had metallic in there and they feel softer.
So, were too bity. They were kind of bityy before and just like slamming front wheel and almost like washing my front when I wasn't
trying to. Yeah. Yeah. It's the classic touchy smart brick. Yeah. We used to call that when we were kids. Nothing. Nothing nothing lock.
Totally. Um like with teenage boys. Did it on my dirt bike. Yeah. Yeah. Happens on the dirt bike, too.
Easy. Yeah. I was taking a little bit of time off the bike after racing downville and just chilling. I mean, I rode like my
standard hard tail a bit and the Banshee and stuff, but been hiking, riding.
probably smart. I mean, you train so hard for Downeyville. It takes so much effort and then you don't want to get
burnt out, right? So, you just take a little rest and get get your stoke back. Yeah. And then, yeah, I drove to to
Bend, Oregon. So, so a lot of driving and I didn't bring a bike either up here on purpose. Just hike, run, hang out
with girlfriend, go to a wedding, hang out with all you guys, chillaxing, chillaxing, floating down the river. Summer.
Floating down to the in a tube. Enjoying a little bit of summer. Yeah, that's nice. Trevor, you actually rode
in Bend. Yeah, so I I also went to Bend. Um yeah, Zach got married, which was super cool. Um and I brought a lot of toys. I
brought mountain bike with an extra wheel set and uh a dirt bike and and
golf clubs cuz I just wanted to do as much as I could while I was there. And I don't have a girlfriend. So, um I just
had all the time in the world to do. Shout out single Trevor. Hit him up. I just had all the time in the world to do whatever.
What app do you use? I'm not going to get into that.
We used the mountain bike. Did it go off and bend? It went off in bend. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Could be a couple girls listening. Never know.
Yeah, they're in Bend. Hit me up. Um Yeah. So, you're not in Bend anymore? Not in Bend anymore, though. But, uh
we'll travel. Yeah, we'll travel to Bend. But anyway, so yeah, rode uh rode Mount Bachelor while I was up there on the Druid with
the Trail One Wheels, which was sweet. Um I'm that bike just keeps on
impressing me with what you can do on it because I'm riding like for those who don't know Mount Bachelor is very
similar to Mammoth. It's kind of on a it's on a volcano actually and it's very kind of pummusy and
there's sharp rocks everywhere and um it's a pretty legit pretty legit bike
park. It was it was cool. They're open from 10 to 7 which is amazing. Oh nice. So you can just like go there after work and just ride the bike park
and yeah, there's a trail called Red Line there and they have it's like a mini A-line
but on Pummus so it's a little sketchy but it's also the jumps are big and I was a little intimidated cuz you have to
go into them pretty fast and I was following a buddy who was on a downhill bike so that was interesting but um yeah the
trails are cool. You're just kind of lava rock everywhere. Is it steep enough to ride downhill bikes there? Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. some I mean some of the trails are not like the black diamonds and blues you wouldn't want to down a bike but the
double black stuff and then the jump line I think is the main prize and they they have an irrigation system
too so it opens at 12 and the whole trails irrigated kind of like Northstar um and then they pack the lips and stuff
so it's pretty legit there's also massive holes so you go from these packed perfect lips and landings to the
corner with just the biggest brake bump holes ever and it was pretty aggressive honestly worse than Whistler
different than Whistler I would more like big holes instead of like sharp brake bumps. But I mean, yeah, pretty aggressive. My
my forearms were smoked afterwards. Um, and yeah, I brought a dirt bike as well to bend and the dirt biking up
there was amazing. Um, which was super fun. It's kind of like riding a mountain bike, but you're just ripping for 30
miles constantly. So, through the trees. Through the trees. Yeah, that's cool. Through like through
volcanic like rock as well. Little baby heads everywhere. Um, and you can ride to a lake or something. So, it was
pretty sweet. On Thursday when I got up there, I went to Zach's parents house and they're like, "I hope Trevor's okay.
He's been out there for a while." I was like, "Oh, let me look." So, I looked at his location and I was like, "Oh, he's like behind Mount Bachelor, like south
and west of Mount Bachelor." I was like, "He looks like he's like 35 miles away right
now." Yeah, that was sweet. Um, I was with some friends, so I was relatively safe. But um I actually didn't end up doing
any trail riding there even though I brought different wheel set for that. Like for those who don't know, bend is
not like super steep in elevation. So it's a lot of up and down. I think an XC bike would be more better suited there
with some really fast tires would be I think would be super fun there. But um if you don't then you probably won't
have the greatest time ever. Um but I made uh Moto a little bit more of a
priority because I brought it up there. So yeah. Um and and I take B take Bachelor off the list. So yeah, it was cool.
Yeah, what an amazing place, man. In terms of just outdoor activities to do. There's so many people out there. I
judge a place a little bit off of like the uh how many tailgate pads on trucks there are and bike racks and stuff.
They're everywhere. How many Sprinter vans were there? Oh yeah, that seems like the sprinter van capital.
I think that's where the whole like one less sprinter sticker came from was probably Bend, Oregon, man. There somewhere. And I'm in a
Sprinter van, too. But yeah, there's like I'm not in a $200,000 Sprinter van. And there's a lot of $200,000 Sprinter vans
there. Yeah, there was really nice Sprinter vans there. Yeah. Cool area though, man.
That was awesome. Definitely go back there. Great place to vacation if you want everything outdoors. If you're outdoorsy, want to go
hiking, trail running, moto, mountain biking, lake fishing. Yeah. Fishing, river sports, river drive was under 10 hours for us.
The 13 hour full sand. I can't believe you guys drove. Both Trevor and I full send home
yesterday. You had to be back for the podcast. What do you mean? Brutal. I I broke it up on the way up. Trevor
did not. Yeah, he did full send both ways. I broke it up. I did 10 on the way up and four
after. Yeah. And then 13 straight yesterday. Yeah, man. That's a huge drive. Even
that Even that adventure race I did there in May, flying into Redmond did the same. I didn't drive. Just like I'm
just going to fly. How long is the flight? Oh, it's short. It's like an hour and a half in Burbank.
It's so nice. Yeah, I know. If I just to bring a bike, I would have probably flown. Yeah.
Um but I wanted to bring it was worth it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I liked having it was
good. I I kind of needed a car there or I would have had to rent a car due to where I stay. I just got a car to row.
Yeah. Yeah. How about you, Jeff? What have you What have you been up to? I have not ridden bikes since the last adventure race
which was a week and a half ago now. Um yeah, that was the one which said in the
title short because it it is weird cuz in the I've been saying short because it's an 8 hour race, but I understand
that most people don't think that that's a short race of any kind. But in the world of adventure racing, it is literally as short as they get. Um I
mean it's rare to even see them be 24 or 36 hours. Most of them are multi-day races, but this one is a pretty unique
format in that it's 8 hours. And um the race director kind of just made this up.
So, uh he he runs Big Blue Adventures, which I do a whole bunch of mountain bike racing, trail run races, and this
adventure race in North Lake Tahoe area. And yeah, he used to do Big Adventure Races, and he sort of just made up this
format, which is similar to a traditional adventure race that you paddle and you trail run on your mountain bike. Um, but it's only 8 hours
long and you're allowed to use electronic navigation, which is cool. Um, and a great idea
since it's only 8 hours. Like, you know, in a long race, you burn a lot of time just figuring out navigation, which you
still burn time navigating with your phone in this case. Cuz the way they do the race is um around 7:15ish in the
morning, they post the map on the board and he just has little dots that says CP1, CP2, CP3 and then you get your
passport and the passport has little clues. So you have to essentially take a photo of the map and then you know
transfer all the little uh uh checkpoint locations from the map to your phone navigation and then they're all worth
different point values as well and they're all scattered. It's like there's no logical route. Only a few of them are mandatory. Uh but there's a whole bunch
of them and you can get as many of them or as few of them as you want in whatever order you want and they're all with different point values. And then
all the trail run points you don't get until you're actually in the race. And then at CP2 is a transition area. You
get off your bike and you get onto foot and they give you a new map and then all your new trail run navigation out on
course during the race. So, so it's like sectioned off what activity you're going to be doing at what at what time
pretty much. So, so everyone starts at the same time with the paddle. Um, so 8 a.m. start and I mean it is the most
gnarly mental stress test of your life because they post this map. You're sitting there trying to figure out what
makes sense to go to, what route you're going to take, figuring out all that stuff out. Um, and then they're like, "Oh, 10 minutes till start, 5 minutes
till start." And you got to get your kayak stuff ready. You get in your kayak. Um, start it out. Let's see. go look at my stats. It was um so the kayak
so yeah 8 a.m. Then you start on the kayak. Um, you get two checkpoints. Um, only one of them is mandatory. The other
one's optional. Two checkpoints on North Lake Tahoe. Um, 6 and 1/2 m paddling,
which is a long ways to paddle in flat water. If you've ever paddled, you know that's like 6 and 12. Yeah. Just not not that fun.
That's huge. It's not that fun. Um, and uh, what's
you just so starting out with a paddle, I mean, I'm just not a strong paddler, so I was probably midpack on the paddle,
just kind of dying, trying my hardest. And yeah, then you go straight into a mountain bike and then from after the
paddle, you can choose if you want to get all the mountain bike points first and then go get the trail run points
last. Oh, really? Yeah. Or you could like you can pick whatever you want. So, it's kind of just get as many points as you can in the 8
hours and you have to make it back before the 4 p.m. guts and you know how many points each
checkpoint is. Yeah. You know how many points each one's worth, but everyone goes different
ways. So, some It's like a real life video game. It is. It's crazy. So, you see people out on the course going complete other
directions as you. And everyone kind of goes similar ways in the beginning and then all of a sudden it's just like everyone's going totally different ways.
You have no idea if you're doing well, if you're doing bad. No one else has any idea either. Um, so yeah, after the
paddle, um, I decided to go basically straight to the run. So I just got the first two checkpoints and then that, so
that was only, uh, what, 3 mi on the bike, 720 ft of elevation, and then I
got right to the run checkpoint. Transition to the trail run. The trail run was 7 1/2 m with 2,000 ft of
elevation, and I think there was like five CPS in that. So I was just like ticking all of those off, which was
super steep and rugged and a bunch of offt trail. And then I just went for the mountain bike part. The mountain bike part after that was 29 miles um 4,000
feet of elevation and I was just like bouncing all around the mountains there. So that was all in like Kings was that
right above Kings Beach pretty much. Yeah, it was above Kings. It was it was basically um north and
west of Kings Beach and all that that region there. Like what's over there? U Mount Watson is over there. Um, yeah,
there's a bunch of amazing trails, some really fun trails that I rode out there, um, that were just part of the course
that made logical sense to ride to get to some of the CPS. And he puts some of the checkpoints in areas that he knows
you're going to have to take a cool trail to get to. So, you end up riding some really fun trails in the midst of the whole thing.
There's such fun fun uh, blue trails out there in King's Beach area. like 100% is
they're so fun. On like an XC bike, you're kind of overbiked a little bit or underbiked a little bit on that stuff on the XC bike and it's a it's a blast.
Would recommend it if you're in the area. Yeah, totally. That area is rad. I I had so much fun. There was one trail just
called Over the Bars, which was a blue trail, but it was just amazing. It's just super fun, flowy, cool corners,
cool little rock hits, and um yeah, kind of not riding the normal way you'd normally ride because you're pretty
focused on trying to go fast and figuring out your navigation, which is a disaster between each checkpoint. Um
yeah, so I just like poured my heart out on the course, got as many checkpoints as I possibly could. I missed one of
them. Um, and you essentially it's you're also not only figuring out your navigation and the point values and
deciding which ones you're going to go to and skip and yada yada and which ones you're going to get in what order, but then you have to be back by four
otherwise really you have to be back by 350 cuz you got to do a 100 yard swim at the end. Um, and you're toast if you
can't finish past four cuz you just start getting like penalized huge point values. So you have to manage your time
well and sometimes you're 15 miles away from the finish. So, you really can't screw up knowing how long it's going to
take you to get back to the finish area in time. Um, takes a lot a lot of experience then,
huh? Well, yeah. So, so I did this race two years ago. Um, had a huge issue with the
paddle, started in dead last place. Um, and then gave it everything I had. All
my electrolytes got soaked in the whole kayak debacle and I had like a terrible race and and still did okay. I think I
got eighth or seventh overall. Um, and I was like, man, I actually did pretty good, but maybe I only did good because
I was basically just full redlinined because of the kayak situation in the beginning. And it's so complicated
because you get to the CP and he tell he puts the CP on the map, which is a general vicinity, and then he tells you
what trail junction the CP's at. And then once you get to that, you pull out your passport, and your passport will say, you know, uh, 167° 42 paces back of
tree. And so every CP you get to then you have to like you're there then you have to pull out your compass and you
have to draw a bearing and then you have to draw a bearing and go as many paces as he wrote down on the card and then look for the actual punch thing that you
punch your passport like your treasure hunt. Well, this is just traditional adventure race format in a sense. Yeah. But yeah,
you can see where you know adventure racing inspired the treasure hunt a little bit. Um yeah, so it's it's crazy.
So, a lot of people, you know, get lost or get confused or get to a CP and they're like, "We're here." And it's like, "No, no, look at your card." Like,
there's a clue. You have to read the clue now. You have to navigate with your compass to the clue. And then, actually, that's where the actual technical
checkpoint is. Um, so it was pretty funny. So, I finish and I only miss one point and I think I
was like, man, I feel like I did pretty good. The last two years, the uh teams who won it only missed one point. So, I
was like, oh, maybe I did pretty good. Um, but there was another really good team there, Four-Hour Hour Fuel, which has beat us in every adventure race I've
ever done. And this, you did this, not solo. You had a team on I did this one solo. Yeah, 4-Hour Fuel
was a two person team. But you're still, are you still racing in the same category as them? Uh, not necessarily. Like adventure
racing, they'll they'll announce the category winners, but then there's also still an overall winner, too. Okay. Um, and in this case, it's just who can
get as many points as possible in eight hours. Um, so I feel like I did pretty good. Like, I gave it everything I had. I made
it back on time. I didn't miss the cut off. Um, so everyone's waiting around and the race directors are tallying up all the points and everything. It's a
pretty hard thing for them to do because they have all these passports, all the punches on there. They have to figure out who got what. So it takes them like
an hour and a half. Everyone's just lingering around. No one has a clue how they did. Um, and uh, so they, oh,
podium's coming up. I'm like, all right, sweet. Podium's coming up. He's like, okay, before I announce, you know, the categories, I want to announce the
overall winners um, uh, of the whole race. And so, you know, I'll have them
tell you guys a little bit about like the route they took and stuff cuz it is interesting like the fast guys versus the every rest of the pack, like who
went what, how many checkpoints did they get. So, they call off third place, they call off second place was 4-hour fuel,
and then he he calls off uh and then he's like, "Oh, and it's uh Jeff Sears, and this kind of like goofy older guy in
his 50s, he's like, "Oh, oh, oh, okay." He like walks up. I'm like, "Wow, how did how did that guy win? And how did I
not even get top three? I was like, God, I thought I did really good. And uh I was like, man, this is a bummer. And
then I like the third place guy says his route and what he took. And then four-hour fuel says, you know, their
their route and how they missed a couple points. And I was like, they missed two points. I was like, how did I not beat
them then? Because the points take precedent over time. And then the guy who supposedly got first was like, oh, I missed a whole bunch of points. So I did
the mountain biking first. Like it's like something's not adding up here. So, I walk over to the race director, um,
his sort of partner guy, and and I was like, "Can I double check my passport?" And the guy looks at me and he looks over at the podium and he's like, "Oh,
dude, you you won the whole thing. Like, you smoked everyone." And and he looks over and he's like, "Oh, Todd."
And he goes, "Uh, I think you called the wrong Jeff." And I'm like, "Oh, that's awkward."
And you won. Yeah. So, I won. That's awesome. So, so it was so funny. It was just like, "Oh my god, man. I feel like I
poured my heart out on that course and I didn't even get top three. And then it was so funny. So then he like runs over
to Todd and then Todd the Todd's a race director guys doing the announcing. He's like, "Uh, ladies and gentlemen, uh, this is the second time this year I've
royally screwed something up during the awards. Uh, I called the wrong Jeff. The correct overall winner was Jeff Kaye."
That's so It was hilarious, dude. That's a huge like ego check. Yeah, 100%.
I knew and bummer for the other dude. Yeah. He like goes over the guys like, "Sorry, man. like you didn't win. Like I
called the wrong draft. He's like, "Oh, okay." Like I think he kind of knew. And a bunch of people there are also kind of bewildered to like, you know, not not to
be judgy. It's a challenging race. Like everyone's a different skill level. It's very strategic. It's not just based on
fitness, but this guy doesn't seem like this guy won. Yeah. So, it was so funny, man. So,
yeah, I was pumped. I won that thing. And uh yeah, I was like, "Holy crap, that was rad." cuz I was the most I was
happy with my effort, but I was also just so pumped that I beat 4-hour fuel cuz that's like a legit elite adventure
race team. And they passed me on a climb and on the mountain bike and I'm like that's not good.
That's like that's your strong suit. Yeah. I was like my strong suit should be mountain biking out here and I'm getting passed on the climb by these
guys and I was like oh man dang. Um but yeah, that the race is crazy, right? you the navigation is so hard and you
know doing the navigation on the fly and then knowing what to get and so anyways they missed two points I only miss one u
but yeah sick race and during the race are you like pretty pinned the whole time like you're like
well 8 hour 8 hour pinned like is it like endurance like I'm just curious what like your heart rate was like did you get it did
you get it up pretty high yeah I was pretty much um it was tricky what was it cuz it cuz
Garmin on your activity broke it Oh yeah, I mean I I was pretty much giving it everything I had the whole time. Um I
think the total average heart rate was 144. Um so I mean I was I was bouncing
around basically between zone 3 and four. I don't really think I got into zone 5 very often.
I shouldn't you didn't want your max R is probably at the end
uh yeah like mid 160s. Yeah. So I think that the whole thing
was like a 144 average or something. That's right. Like on the climbs, I'm sure you're just kind of giving it a good effort.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you have to just eat so much food cuz running zone 3 and
zone 4 for 8 hours, you just burn so many calories. And it's pretty warm out that day and it's dry out there, so you're just pounding sodium, pounding
calories. Um, and there's just so much to it, right? transitioning from sport to sport and then doing the navigation
and then you know the the random panicking and stopping and thinking you missed a turn or you did miss a turn and
then you turn around and cramp really bad and then have to like run back up and get on the right trail and it's such
a crazy race. It's it's more I honestly think it's more mentally stressful than anything cuz obviously the physical
aspect is gnarly and crazy but um you can't even really pay attention to your
body like you normally would. Like if it was a marked course cuz you're racing. Yeah. Yeah, if it was a marked course, you'd be, you know, you would race and
you would eat and you would like think about your body and like think about but you're not. You're just you're so focused on navigation and strategy and
where you are, how far away you are, what point you're going to get, what you're going to skip, what trail you need to do, what route you're going to take. Man, I feel like it's tough to not
second guess yourself, too. You just have to live with that. You totally are. I'm committed to this and hopefully it
works out. Yep. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And and if you don't know the area, like the back of your hand, and it's a maze out there with all the
different trails and routes you can take, and it's just like, well, you know, I could take the road for this section for 3 miles instead of this
trail. It's going to add an extra half a mile, but it's the road, so it's going to be faster. Or is it? I don't know.
No, it is. It is amaze out there. I remember when I rode out there a couple years ago and um on the downhill, I
remember every single fork I was like stopping and getting out trail forks, making sure cuz I didn't want to take a
long turn. It's such a maze. left, right, and a straight. You start looking like, "Okay, I take a
turn at this point." And then you come up another turn, you're like, "Wait, that's half a mile shorter than I should be at now. Which way do I go?"
Yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's like how long is this how long is this segment actually? You know, like it's hard to tell in real life.
Yeah. There's also all of these random uh secret lers out there. Oh, yeah. So, like on one of the the trail run
portion, I cut a huge section off. Like I probably cut a/4 mile off by just
straight lining it up a 250 ft thing of elevation instead of taking the marked trail. And within 100 ft of being off
the trail, just basically straight lining it, bushwhacking it, I just stumbled upon somebody's secret lumber
that was not marked on any map. Did you shred it? Well, no. I was on foot at this point. So, I just hiked up this secret lr that
wasn't on the map. And then I got to the top and there was another team up there who was way ahead of me, but I got to
them at the same point cuz I cut off so much distance. And they're like, "Did you just bushwack the whole way up?" I was like, "Well, I was going to, but I
just found a secret lumber and walked it up." And they're probably like, "Look at No, they're in mountain bike, dude." So
they knew exactly what it was. I'm like, "That's rad." It was so funny, man. That's awesome.
So, it was such a crazy race. But I I would definitely, you know, encourage people to try that race as their first
adventure race cuz when you register, you can, you know, just say, "Hey, I don't have a kayak. I need a kayak." And
then you can just use one um for an extra fee. So, you don't need a kayak. You basically just need a mountain bike and a pair of trail running shoes. And
you can use your phone and like teaches you how to navigate, teaches you how to get out there. It's it is a hard race.
Um so, just go into it your first time knowing it's going to be like just mentally stressful. Um, yeah, but the
second time was also mentally stressful, but at least I was able to move through the course faster. But it's a cool race
that I think people should try if they're interested at all in like trying to navigate and do multiple sports in the same day. Yeah, it seems a bit more manageable
than a mult multi-day. Yeah, it's like adventure racing is such a hard sport to even think about getting into cuz, you know, the shortest
possible one is 8 hours and then after that it's like 24, 36, which is rare and most of them are multi-day. So,
yeah, it's it's a cool way to get into the sport, I think. So, anyone out there listening, go do it. It's pretty fun.
It's It was decent. There was 60 people. I think last time I did it, there was like 75. So, it's pretty cool. Like a
mass start of 60 people in kayaks is pretty rad to do in like Tahoe. This is like a motocross race of kayaks. Yeah.
Imagine you're just like out there on a family hike and there's just people just like not panicking but just like looking
a little bit bewildered. Yeah. Rushing and Yeah. Yeah. staring staring at their phone and
yelling at their teammates. Even I love it when like we're doing a big old ride and you get to the top of a climb. It's
like climb four out of six of the day or something like that and someone's like, "You're doing so great. You're almost at the top and it's like, yeah, thanks."
I have no clue what I have no idea. You don't know what's going on in my halfway. You don't know my life.
Yeah. Halfway through this ride and you know, I've got another two climbs like this or whatever.
But it's pretty funny. Yeah. So that was the last time I rode a mountain bike. But yeah, it was kind of kind of the highlight of my summer. I
was proud of myself and I just can't believe I had beat for our field. It's like a sick team. It's like sick. That's cool, man.
Yes. So, is that the first race you've won in uh ever, dude? Since starting worldwide cycling?
I don't know. Probably been all that many races. Yeah, true. I I don't know. That's a good question.
That's been 14 years. I'd have to think back on that one. Um but I don't know. Adventure racing has got to be the most
humbling sport on the planet. It's like you just get utterly destroyed out there. Um, and if you think you're in
good shape and you could be an incredible athlete and just still go and get destroyed by people who are clearly not as good of an athlete as you are.
And that's what's really Oh, yeah. Like our first adventure race we ever did four years ago, 36-hour one, I
would I would assume just like, you know, making my judgments, we were probably the fittest team out there. And
we got second to last. Like we got literally destroyed. It's mostly from navigation. You said
they're playing smarter than you. 100%. like their navigation was way better than ours. Their strategy was way
better than ours. They knew where there would be pinch points in the course. They knew how to navigate better. Their transitions were way faster. They didn't
screw up food. Like they just they knew how to pace themselves and like we just got destroyed.
That is interesting. So, it's such a hard sport, right? Yeah. Cuz mainly with mountain bike racing, I would say you're going to get
beaten just because the other person is more fit and more skilled than you. It's kind of like they're always going
to beat you because of that. Yeah, you could go to Elevation and then you'll get and you know the who you
think's going to win gets flopped a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that that definitely happened at that the 75 hour race we did
in Breen Ridge cuz that started at 9,000. That's what I'm talking about racing Brook Epic. I'm just like getting past
people. Yeah, dude. I think at sea level I would be beating you but I cannot go any harder. So that that race 50 people started um
and only 25 finished and of the 25 only
seven cleaned the course meaning got all the checkpoints. So half the field just dropped. Was that the Tahoe one or the Breidge?
No, this was the Breen Ridge one and it I think it was mostly elevation. Like people just went out hard.
Yeah. People just got destroyed out there. I mean, it was a gnarly race, but I mean, for half the field to just
disappear, like, yeah, that was a pretty rough adventure race, but man, just anything when you're out there that long
above 9 10,000 ft for the whole time, it's like that'll eat you alive. Yeah, elevation is tough.
Yeah, this race was like what Taho is at 6,200. So, I think the highest I got was around 8 or 85,
which is still decent. Yeah, it's still up there, but it's I mean, once you get above nine like in Breen Ridge, that's when you start to
feel elevation bad. Yeah, I feel like around that 6 7,000 foot mark like things for us at sea level are just a
little bit harder. Yeah. But you're not like wrecked. Like you're not like body shut down.
You you won't recover as fast, but like you can basically do similar things. You get over nine and stuff. Yeah.
You're like exponentially goes up. Fly of stairs is tough. Yeah.
Why am I out of breath just trying to go to sleep? Yeah. Yeah. I noticed that just being way high
up going just taking a piss in the middle of the night like your heart rate like spikes. You just like got out of bed and you're like ah
like 120 man. Yeah. Like why is this happening? Yeah. Elevation's rough. Yeah, man. So
that's my uh that's the highlight of my summer so far. Nice. There you go. Pretty sick. Well, should we hit a quick break, get a
word from our sponsor and we'll jump in and listen to questions. Send it. All right. And now a word from our sponsor.
And now a word from our sponsor. Hello mountain bikers, Jeff here. I have a quick favor to ask. We are currently
looking to hire someone to help us manage the Amazon side of our business. It's a growing portion of things and
quite a challenge. We need someone who's an expert in all things Amazon e-commerce and then some. We have a team
that's full of incredibly fun people that genuinely care about building an amazing business inside and out and
having a good time while doing it. If this sounds like you or someone you might know, please contact me. Send me
an email anytime. Jeff Worldwide Cyclingery. That's it. That's all. Thank you. And now back to the show.
And we're back. We forgot to do a quick recap of the kettle treasure hunt edition, too.
Got excited. Yeah, got excited. 20 jars in 10 states. Each jar had $200 cash and $1,000 kettle
gift card. Uh they were all over the place. If you're curious where they were, you can just go to kettlemount.com/treasure.
Um, all 20 of them got claimed in 30 hours. Wow. Yeah. How crazy is that?
Technically all 22. Yeah, because the 13 jar, the little
tricky 13 thing I did was I put three of them out there and gave three coordinates and only one of them had the treasure. And somebody you knew got one
of them that was a joker jar. Yeah, my good buddy Alden. He sent me uh sent me something tonight or text me
something tonight like 8:00 p.m. um of the first night and he's like he's like like I'm going to go get it. And I was
like all right, you know 13 has three jars, one has treasure, right? He goes, "Yeah, yeah, the Joker thing." I'm like,
"Cool. Have fun." Uh text. Yeah. Yeah. Text me at 8:00 in the morning
with a jar, an empty jar or whatever. Just had a kettle sticker in it or something like that, right? Um and I was
like, "Oh, you got the Joker." He's like, he's like, "Yeah, I did a night mission uh straight out." He's like He's
like He's like one of those dudes that doesn't post on Instagram, doesn't post on Strava, but just does gnarly stuff.
Did he go up Bony? Oh, okay. So, we went the hard way, which is cool. That's the cool. Yeah, he he lives right here.
Yeah. So, like he's not going to drive around anywhere. He just went from his house, went up the hard way. That's awesome. Said he's like, "I saw a big kitty."
Oh, and I saw I talked to him later and he he's like, "Yeah." Like, you know, saw this cat like face on in the trail
middle of the night. No thanks. To not get a jar. So yeah, it was a
valiant effort. And then I was I was like, "You going to go get another one? There's It's not claimed." He's like, "Ah, got to paint a baby nursery."
I want to know like some stories about like what happened when people try to find these jars. Like I want to know the
person who found the jar in the Condor Sanctuary back in. Did you see the video of that guy? Fear. No, I haven't seen any.
Oh, he looks I was worried I was more worried about that one than any of them just cuz that was dangerous. That was
I remember you going to to to drop that one off and you were gone like all day.
Oh, that was a that was a huge mission. Yeah. So that I mean that was a you know an hour on a windy single lane dirt road.
Um which you realistically needed four-wheel drive for maybe in spots like you could maybe destroy a two wheel
drive back there to get to that trail head. And then it was 9 miles one way in
and there's no water until you're at 9 miles at all. And then when you're at 9 miles, you're at the Sesby Creek. And I
mean that's that's a So then you got to go 9 miles back out. Um and I think it was almost 3,000 ft each direction um in
elevation. And I just thought, man, this this one's deep. This is dangerous. There's no service anywhere. There's not
even service on the road out there. Um yeah, I was like, "Oh man, I hope somebody gets this." But luckily all
these like all the ones I was worried about the one in Colorado that was on that crazy knife edge of rocks and had probably a you know 100 200 foot just
vertical cliff on each side. I was kind of worried about that one too just cuz you know you slip you die type of thing.
The guy's just like yeah got it man sick. Wasn't even that hard. I was like sweet like yeah different out
there. Yeah. It's like if you can climb rocks and you're good at scrambling like yeah it isn't that hard but if you're not you're it could be really hard. And
yeah, that one in uh the Lost Padres's, I was totally worried about that. Guy sends a video. He's like totally just
hardcore legit trail runner looking dude, full-on Trail Runner vest. I was like, "Yep, sweet. Somebody qualified,
went for that, and got it and it's all good." Like, didn't even care. So, just a fun day for him. Yeah. I don't I don't think anyone has
gone for these things that is really not qualified. Like, people who aren't qualified look at this and they're like,
"Oh, that's cool. Like, I'm going to do I'm not going to do that, though." Um, and the people that just see coordinates
and they look where it is and they look at the trail map, like those are the people that can actually go get to them. So, yeah, it's true.
So, I don't know. I had more confidence in all of the people going to get these things. But the one guy who got the jar
in New Zealand, he seemed a little on the edge. I didn't see a video about it. Oh, so he said he basically had Google
Maps. Okay. No offline maps. He's using Google Maps out there. Ran out of service, but he still had the
the PIN on there. So he was just going on a blank screen like a cuz the map cash ran out. So he's just going on a
blank screen and it took him 2 hours on the blank screen just trying to go to that dot. He's just like trying he's
basically trying to connect to the dots. I wonder where he ran out of service and how far he went. Um do right Liam?
Yeah. Yeah. The one in New Zealand for Down Under Treasure Hunt. So he was about to give up. He was like 2 and 1/2 hours trying to find the thing and then he
finally found it. I was like oh man. So I was like that was like okay that's a
little concerning. Yeah. I mean you get lost if you Yeah. If that one if you had access to the
gondola it was easier but it still wasn't like off you know you still had
to like traverse the mountain then go up a creek and then I scaled the side of
the mountain went over a ridge and then went into like a lone forest. Yeah. So I still wasn't like Yeah. You can
take a Gandhi to this point. Yeah. You can cut off some elevation. Yeah. You could you cut off elevation,
but it's still going to be a lot of work to get to it. So, that was my thing. I was like, I'm going to try to get as far basically away as I could without like,
you know, scaling an entire mountain. But and then the the Papa New Guinea one that has that has
there's no way. So, actually, uh the guy who found the jar in Lake Tahoe, so one of them was
sunk underwater in Lake Tahoe in that Pelican case. Um that's awesome. Yeah. So, I guess I'd call him a kid.
He's 19. um he got it and he he basically saw the thing he heard on the
podcast that we were dropping it in mid August. So, he's just been religiously paying attention to the kettle emails in social media, and he saw it, right? I
think we released it around 1 1 or 2:00 on a Tuesday, and he basically just told his boss, he's like, "I got to go. I
have to leave." And he just bailed. And that's how to do it, though. There was five people going for that at
the same time. And he I mean, he probably got up by 20 minutes before there was multiple people coming to
right at him. And yeah, so he charged in it. And uh it was so funny. I so he
messaged me on Instagram and stuff and was talking to me and um he's actually super nice kid. He's like, "Hey man, I'd love to go for a ride with you sometime,
talk about entrepreneurship and actually rode with him." I was like, "Yeah, actually I'm doing an adventure race this weekend, but on Monday I'm going to
do a recovery ride from Reno and sure let's go for a ride." And he's super nice kid. Like good, humble, cool kid.
And um yeah, he smoked it. Went straight to that jar. I And I asked him so I was like, "Did you put your phone in a dry
bag and go like swim it out of the rocks?" He's like, "No, I just I went so fast. I didn't even have a ziplockc bag
or anything." So, he just studied the video and he's cuz in the video you can see the rock that it was tied to. And
he's then he's like, "I just left my phone and everything on the shore and swam out there and just like dug around the rocks for an half an hour and then
finally found the rock with the paracord around it and pulled that rock up and then found the Pelican case under water." Wow.
That's like a real treasure. I know. That's cool. Was it like in one of those bays or like where was it?
It's It's kind of by Dead Man Point. So south of Skunk Harbor there there's basically if you look at Tahoe that one road goes around the whole perimeter and
then there's one section of it on the east side where the road pulls away quite a ways. Yes. So the most remote edge of Tahoe also
has about 100 ft off the shoreline just a pile of rocks. Pretty big boulders, you know. So you
have to swim to those that little boulder field and that boulder field's probably I don't know 100 ft long and 10
ft wide or 20 ft wide. So there's a bunch of boulders out there in the water. So yeah, you basically have to swim out to that and then climb on those
things and then climb around and find the one underwater rock that had a paracord on it and then pull that rock
up and then sunk down below that was the Pelican case. That thing was in there for 2 months.
That's awesome. Did they know that it was going to be like underwater like that? Yeah. Yeah, cuz I said in the video, right? So like the long form YouTube
video is for people who actually are going to go find these things and there's a little bit of visual clue of where the thing is.
Um cuz otherwise the coordinate you're never going to find something like that. So, there's no way. You got to know the coordinates and then
you need to look at the video and have some reference visually of where the thing is. So, wow.
Yeah. It's a ton of fun. I'm going to keep doing so cool. Yeah. People keep telling me like, "Man, you're on to something. This could be a
game show or something." Maybe it could be. That would be That would be rad.
Yeah. But yeah, good fun. People had a good time. Um that I mean I was just happy to
see so many people have fun doing it and just be grateful to like spend a day outside and do something like that. It's like sweet. That's the whole point.
And then everyone else who's at least trying to go on the adventure is stoked as well. It was just a fun adventure at
the end of the day. Yeah, totally. A lot of people went and, you know, they saw it get updated, found right before they got there or they were
looking forever and then they saw the guy going down with it or something. So, it's kind of all over the place. The one that was in the way north of Black Rock
Desert in Nevada was pretty cool because that one you basically had to 4x42, then you could ride a mountain bike for some
of the stuff and then you had to go on foot. So, like you needed four wheels, then two, then your feet. And I thought that was a cool one. So yeah, it was
fun, man. But it is crazy to spend I don't know the better part of two months flying all around putting all these
things all over the country and then Michael and Dom put some out. The ones in New Mexico, the ones in Tennessee. It's like we spent all this time
orchestrating this and they're all gone in a day. 30 hours. So nuts. Santa Fe, New Mexico. Last
place. That was the one that took 30 hours. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Dude, a lot of them were
found in the first 12 hours or less. Do people work?
Yeah. Well, a lot of people went straight after work, so it was like 5:00, but the people on the east coast of work had pretty much just ended.
Um, so the East Coast people went straight out. Yeah. Yeah. One of my roommates was like, "Hey, do you want to go on Sunday and
try and look for one of these ones in the Santa Monica Mountains?" I was like, "Well, I can't participate, but I'm like, "You better go now."
Yeah. I'm like, "It's going to be on Sunday. You can't wait till Sunday." Yeah. A lot of people think they're going to wait till the weekend. Yeah. I'm like, "No, you got to go like
after work now." And you might even be late for that. Yep. It's funny.
Yeah. Good fun. Well, we'll keep people posted on the podcast when the next one's coming up.
Yeah. 3.0. Yeah. Additionally, you make it harder. Yeah. I think I'm going to do my my
current idea is to do them in destinations now. So, I'm thinking about doing one in Denver in the greater
Denver area. And it's it is going to be a little bit more of a tiered gamified type of thing. So there'll be 12 jars
and those 12 jars will contain the coordinates that lead to six jars. And then those six jars will contain the
coordinates that lead to three jars which will contain the coordinates that leads to the final jar. So they'll there'll be basically 12 people or 12
teams sort of that then get eliminated to six and eliminated to three and then final one. um they'll have increasing
prizes or the 12 zero maybe six will have some something like that. I'll probably put like something super small in all 12 and
then it'll increase and then the last one will be the actual huge one. So, I think that's what I'm going to do, which is a little bit more gamified, game show
like, but it'll also just be crazier in a sense of people won't know who's going to go for it and then like you
technically always compete. Like, if you get one jar, you're you have a coordinate to a jar that another, you know, at least one other person has. So,
you're, you know, you're competing and I, you know, cuz if I do them all in a location like that, I could probably
put them all out over the course of three or four days and then release the whole thing. And then it's going to take whoever wins the thing a long time to
like go through a whole sequence because you have to drive all over the place too. So that's what I'm thinking.
Sounds like it'll take a little bit longer than 30 hours to hold them to get
picked up or Yeah. Or I mean the person who wins it it Yeah. might take them 30 hours nonstop. Yeah. Like you'll have to start
and then not stop to go to get the final one. Mhm. Um, and anytime you do decide to stop or
take a break, technically like you might miss the next jar. It's like a race. Yeah, exactly. That's cool.
So, yeah. So, I think that's going to do it for edition three. Um, I don't know, maybe next month or October. So,
sweet. Yeah. Keep you guys posted. Should be pretty fun. Should we get into some bike questions? Yeah, this first one's not
even a bike question. You're in a gladi gladiator style arena.
Your weapon, anything you can buy from a dollar tree. What do you pick?
Said this before recording, so nobody knows what I've still been thinking about this. Had 30 minutes.
I know. I'm trying to think of like they sell knives. Get your knives. You think they sell knives? Well, I don't know. This is what I'm
going to go with. It's might not be the best weapon, but good deterrent. WD40 and a lighter.
That is good. That's a good or even hairspray. Say like a broomstick or something.
I don't know. I think that I'm making that's an actual You can still get to me, but you might
lose your eyebrows, you know. Yeah, it's a risky one, though, cuz as soon as you run out of that.
Exactly. No, it's it's just a deterrent. You're just biting my time.
I would go with knives or a broomstick. Yeah. I don't know what else they even sell there.
Yeah. Jeff's never stepped tree in a Dollar Tree. Uh, not never stepped foot. Not since I was a teenager. sell like
pencils and gummy bears and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Pencils and gummy bears.
All right, Trevor, read this next one. Okay, so I have a Yeti SP150 with a DT Swiss 370 hub and a full power ebike
with Shimano MT410 hub. Both bikes I have stripped out the hub body. My
question is why do I keep doing this? Is that I'm pedaling in too low or high of a gear on climbs? Am I putting down mad
power, etc.? What hub would you suggest since I'm doing this on both of my bikes? Um, and PS, um, speaking of the
treasure hunt, um, he says, "I went and looked for the kettle treasure in Utah at Analopee Island. Took my bike, went
OTB, and cracked my handlebars. Ended up doing a hike, a bike up a boulder field, thanks, Google Maps, and missed the
treasure by probably an hour. Still was a super fun experience. And that was one of the strangest fun rides of an
adventure I've done in a while." That's I didn't even see that little
testimonial. Um, It's analopee island. It's It's in the Salt Lake.
Oh, yeah. I've I've like flown into Salt Lake a bunch and driven around Salt Lake. Still haven't seen the Salt Lake.
Yeah, it's it's a giant body of water. You You can see it when you fly in. I've seen Yeah, maybe I'm on the wrong side of the
plane. North of the city. Um that's funny. Yeah. Analopee Island is in the Salt Lake and there is actual buffalo on it
and stuff and you have to take a long um I don't know what like a man-made sort of dirt bridge road to it and there is a
peak a little mountain peak on Analopee Island the biggest one and it's called Molly's Nipple and we just looking
around areas in Utah and I was like look at this one. It's called Molly's Nipple. Let's put it there. No trails go to
Molly's Nipple. It's cool it's in the middle of the lake too. Yeah, it's an island in the middle of the lake and it has a a peak on it
called Molly's nipple with no trails whatsoever that go to that nipple and it's just a big pile of rocks on peak.
Yeah, perfect. What does this guy mean? He stripped out the hub body. So, my my question is I I guess I don't
know enough about it, but is the 370 hub could either be a three Paul or is a ratchet?
Yeah, it could be ratchet LN or three Paul. If it's three Paul, I'd go to ratchet LN. Yeah, which is like the typical DT Swiss
ratchet style. Yeah. which is pretty much indestructible. Yeah. Um and if you keep stripping them out, I
would go 36 to not 54 tooth on the the teeth on that. Yeah. You really won't have any problems
with the ratchet style. Yeah. And that's what I'm going to recommend if you're buying hubs. DT
Swiss 350. Mhm. 36 to ratchet. Don't get the 54 if you're shipping stuff.
Not that you should have problems. That's why they don't make them higher than that cuz that's what they feel confident in. But 36 is going to be even
larger like metal and metal teeth engagement engagement. And then the Shimano hub,
I'm just going to look this up real quick, but if it's the typical Shimano kind of free hub style, those are crazy
complicated. Yeah. And um would not be surprised if those strip out. Um
I just look this up real quick. Yep, that is what it is. So, those those the internals of those hubs are incredibly
complicated and I've personally had some issues with them, but um not with the stripped out free hub body though, more
from breaking a hub axle itself. Um but yeah, sometimes they just get to be a
little bit little bit much. Yeah. And I don't know, I feel like certain people
for whatever reason always have this issue of like stripping out stuff or breaking paws or having issues. like
I've destroyed every brand free hub. I'm like hell man. Like yeah, but something there. It's something
that's going on. Try like try shifting maybe a little bit wattage. Try shifting a little bit smoother. It's wattage with like Yeah, maybe hard
shifts mixed with, you know, maybe you go down hill on a hard gear and you're just like constantly kind of slamming
it. I'm not I'm not positive. Or if it's like maybe there's bad maintenance and not enough grease in the free hub or something like that.
I remember I had a a buddy I used to ride with who was a big guy. He was probably 6'4 and I don't know 230 and
but he was he was powerful and he would just shift really poorly and he would run into those times where you sort of
hit a a down switch back g out and you don't grab enough gears in time and then you like kind of panic shift and I would
just watch him just like yeah and he also had stripped out a couple and broke chains and I was like
I see that all the time. a little bit of user error, but it's hard to tell someone that. I see that all the time with guys on
ebikes in particular cuz they just kind of live in the smallest cog. Yeah. And that's no that's no way to climb a
hill in the smallest cog. But like on a flat road on the ebike, you can kind of cruise and put a little bit of power
down and it keeps you like shooting forward. But man, that's got to be so bad for the cassette and the chain and just the
whole system in general. Yeah. So, um but also with ebikes in general, they're so hard on transmissions and
drivetrains. So, it's like it's something's going to break eventually if you're not maintained. I still think ebikes should
have like a N-speed like a an 11 to 52 range or something
like that. They sort of kind of started to do that, right? Didn't Stram make an ebike specific drivetrain and so did Shimano,
but Stram is in lower. Stram made like an 8-speed when they when ebikes were kind of first coming
out. Stram made like an 8-speed chain and I didn't I never really knew why. Um
like they didn't have an 8-speed drivetrain. Yeah. Um besides like a like a cheap cheap one, but still even that. But um
I I remember them both taking a stab at some sort of ebike specific drivetrain a long time. But it was not very highend. It was low.
Yeah, Link was probably good. Kind of that answer to that. Believe that's 11 speed though, right?
Mhm. Think so. I still think like 9 or 10 speed durable as hell and like you know that's
what it is. And if you want something fancy, then yeah, you're going to get a normal drivetrain. But it's like for the
most people, that's probably the best ebike drivetrain you can get. You can still make electric. And no matter what, like drivetrain too,
like if it's not tuned perfectly, especially on an ebike, you're going to break a chain or you're going to snap a
cassette tooth. So much power going down. So much power. Like you're like imagine just having a your derailer like
skipping a little bit and then just putting down his maximal power. Essentially, you just went from a normal human to a professional level athlete
with like able to put that power out consistently over and over and over. You're like an Avenger all of a sudden.
Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much you just got superhero powers out out of nowhere with it like Yeah. And your hub doesn't know who you
are. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Long story short, DTS 350 and
you're going to have a good a good time. Ratchet better hubs. Yep. All right, Jeff. Next question is for
you. How often do you get mistaken for Dean Talon from the Disney original movie motocross?
Is that his real name or is that his name in the show? Oh, I think it's the name of the movie. I think he's the sort of mean, rude
competitor guy who I don't know, but I know exactly. When I read that, I cracked up cuz I I
watch it as a kid. Anyone who rode dirt bikes watch it as a kid and yeah, he's just like some classic California
looking blondhaired dude. looks exactly like me. So, it's a valid question. Who do you get like uh mistaken as or
like who do you get like who's your doppelganger? Uh I get uh
I get Paul Rudd pretty pretty often which is weird cuz he has totally different color hair. Yeah, I could see it's like your facial
features could kind of be mistaken as that but like and I get Dax Shepard every now and then.
What about like Jimmy Neutron or something? No, Dax.
I don't know, man. When you when you wear your 100% glasses, you look like
the actor. You don't look like Dmer, but you look like the actor who plays Jeffrey D. Yeah. I mean, everyone says that if
I'm wearing gray bands, but he he looks kind of like if you look at like the actor versus the real one.
He looks kind of like him enough, but like you look more like the actor than Jeffrey Dmer. Yeah.
Well, you get what you ask for when you wear aviator style glasses, especially when I have those transition lenses. And
so if I'm indoors, they're clear and then it looks really bad. All right. What's this next one, Liam?
What's up, guys? Hope all is well. So, my Ibis Ritmo AF is just about ready for some new brake pads. The bike is running
SLX calipers, Shimano stock pads, and Shimano RT66 rotors. I was looking into
swapping rotors and pads with some research I got. I see a lot of people going towards Galer Wave rotors and
Galer Pro pads. Those are the green ones. Uh, is this a good combo? What do you suggest? Thanks guys. Love the show.
Um, that's what Jeff's running. Yeah, I actually really like combo. I don't know why. Why did I try those to
begin with? I think Way Meer. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And I think so. Yeah, he like them.
Yeah, the guys in Reno really liked them. Um, and they ride a lot of steep stuff with dust everywhere. And um,
yeah, I just I tried them out on those brakes, which I had them before. What were the brakes I had on my last ASR?
Uh, you had level ultimate pistons. Level two pistons. Yeah. So, I had the galer pads and rotors on those. Did
amazing. And then the new ASR I have um has the same brake pad setup um with
the motive brakes. Correct. And yeah, I really like them. I mean, I think they worked way better than the
stock brake pad and rotor setup um in terms of just feel and power and
consistency. Um most the wave rotor is pretty light as well. Yeah, it is. Yeah, like the whole set is
good for um yeah, I don't know. I liked them. I mean, and I still run them and kind of
stick by them now. So, yeah, that's an easy suggestion. Have you run them yet? No. Are you still running stock stuff?
Yeah, I just have so much spares for Stram HS2 rotors and brake pads right
now that I don't know. Unless it's like sent to me as a sample, I'm not going to like go out of my way to buy it right
now. Yeah, it's it's hard to say. Um, I mean I I think when it comes to an XC bike
like that ASR, I was really kind of trying to squeeze as much possible power as I could out of a 160,
especially those old levels. Um, the motives are much more powerful. But still, on an XC bike with a super
lightweight brake and you're running smallerish rotors, I was trying to get like every ounce of additional power out
of them, which is why I tried that galer setup and it did seem to work better and have more power. But I don't think that's nearly as much of a problem when
you're talking about Stram stock pads or even Shimano stock pads and rotors if you have um I don't know like a Mavens
or Saints or whatever. But I guess he's talking about SLX. So yeah, when I when I first started working here, I was I was running XTR
brakes um on an XC bike and I had those same Shimano RT66 rotors,
but I couldn't get brake pads cuz the bike industry was still going through supply chain issues. But Galer had pads.
So, I did try those green pads out with those RT66 rotors, and I loved them. I
thought they had a ton ton of power and they uh it wasn't like they bit pretty good, but like yeah, they were
just consistent and had tons of power when I needed it the most. And they didn't really glaze over or anything weird like that. So,
I haven't tried the Wave rotors, but um just even the green pads on those Shimano rotors did just fine. And I mean
those Shimano rotors, those RT66 are they're just basic rotors and they work
well. They just there's nothing fancy about them. 86 is like the XT level. Is that
correct? Um I think so. The the 66 is like the SLX level. Okay. Yeah. But a little like kind of tidbit that
most people don't know is Shimano actually makes these RT66 rotors in a 220. And they don't make a 220 rotor in
any other rotor but these ones just cuz I think it's such a simple there's no ice tech anything like that. It's just a
stamped rotor. Um so if you did want to run a Shimano rotor in 220 you can get some of those
and have ton of cooling and power and it probably won't warp as much as a
typical ice rotor. I'd say just simple. Yeah. Mhm. Although 220s you can look at them wrong
and they bend. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And pros and cons. Mhm.
Well, the other big caveat here too is make sure you break your brakes in perfectly new pads and new rotors. Like
the proper bedding in method is key to making sure those things actually work no matter what pads and rotors you have.
Or also key to making them work terribly if you do it wrong. So do it right. I know sometimes like if you don't do it
right, you'll get part of the rotor biting super hard and part of it not biting hard and then it just it just
warps it even worse. So yeah, it's important. I was actually going to ask you, Jeff, if uh we could
justify buying a break bed machine for the shop. Oh, I've seen that. We actually had a customer ask about
that today. 2,00 No, $2,750.
Yeah, they're like two grand. What's nice, you can perfectly bed in your brakes. Yeah. What's nice is we have the hill
right at the shop, so you actually can perfectly bed in a brake. There's not a better way to do it than
than like this hill right here. This is like perfect% grade. The only energy it takes is to get up
the hill, which I don't really mind. And then but like the whole like sprinting in a parking lot thing and breaking in
that pain. Super exhausting. I could see that being worth it. Or if you're at like a race or something like that.
I actually think it's more worth it if you're not in Southern California with 360 days of sun.
Yeah. And you're somewhere that doesn't have the sun like this. Yeah. And you can't go out or if it's too cold
like you can get consistent. can't just go out and bed in your brakes any day of the year. Yeah, I didn't even think about that.
So, for for us, it's harder to justify that, but yeah, we actually just had a customer
ask if uh we had one of those machines to bed his brakes in today, which is ironic, but um it's like, no, we have a
hill that's perfect for that. Actually, if we got 20 of those customers and charge them, we can pay it off, Jeff. Yeah.
Okay, I'll put that in the consideration bank. Unless TRP wants to send us one for free
and then we'll talk about it on the podcast and tell tell the world if it works good or not. We could do that.
Um, all right. Over this next one. Hey guys, I've been looking to get a trail bike. Uh, the
Canyon Spectral AL6 looked basically perfect for the local trails where I'd be riding it. However, I'm torn between
a full 29 and the Mullet. Uh, what are the pros and cons of each? I'm 510, which I think is a size medium. I do uh
do you have any other suggestions for trail bikes around 1 140 to 160 millimeters of travel. Thanks keep up
the good word with the pod. It's super entertaining. Thanks again from Dan.
Um I would definitely go with a medium on the canyons. Those are long boys.
Like I think most of their pro athletes are running uh sizing talent. Yeah, they are. Huh.
Yeah. Um so that's good. 510. Uh my opinion on a 29iner or mullet setup for
a trail bike is what's your intended use? Are you trying to like kind of use
it as a trail bike? Then probably full 29iner. But if you're trying to kind of like pedal here and there, but hit a lot
of jumps, hit a lot bike park, kind of pop off stuff, then the mullet will probably like suit better towards that.
Yeah, I agree. Like if you're going to the bike park, then get a mullet. There's no reason not to. But if you're actually going to be riding trails and
real trails, then you really don't want that. You want to be rolling as fast as possible. Yeah. Um and it won't really like hinder you
unless you're just riding like straight down lers. Yeah. Um that's where the mullet is sick for like jumps and like steep jumps
and like turns super well. Yeah. You're not super off you're not super high up like you're a little bit farther back and it just helps turn.
You know, if you were get the full 29iner, I believe that buys a flip chip and you just buy a rear wheel and then you can have both.
There you go. But that's the move. Yeah, other bikes are 14160 475 reach in a medium.
Yeah, they're huge. That is huge. That just took me like 3 minutes to find that. Sorry. That's another That's like most other
brands. That's a perfect large that I like. Or I mean that's most bikes. This is why bike sizing stupid. 475
reach is my ideal zone. Yep. Like 470 to 480 is usually where I like to be. Um and that happens to be a
medium for Canyon, but large for most other brands. The editors made fun of me in that last video I did
about the ASR. Yeah. Yeah. So, did you notice that? That So, the last video I just did talking about the ASR build, um, I I went on a tiraate
about how stupid bike sizing is. Um, because it's just this whole small, medium, large thing. It should just
actually be the reach number or it should be M-475, M L-500. Like, just put the reach number
in there. It's the most important thing. Um anyways, and they they just like edited it to where it like showed my
face and all these different things and all these like letters. Yeah. The calculations. Yeah.
So like, okay, well, fair enough. Should have been made fun of for that. But it it is so annoying that bike brands do
that. Um why not why don't we just start talking about reach numbers now? Yeah. Trail bikes that I'd suggest. Um
first thing that comes to mind is just a Yeti SP40. Y like the lunch ride or the lunch.
Here's the other thing. We don't have as much experience in this cuz this is a $2,900 complete bike, the Spectral 6.
Oh, so aluminum and 2,900 bucks. Canyon is
pretty competitive in that price. I guess the other one I'd say would just be a specialized stump jumper. They probably make an alloy
bike that has a, you know, they're probably like $3,500 if I had to
guess. They're low price point. I mean, most of the boutique brands that we personally ride and sell here are not
really as competitive or even have any bikes that are under $3,000. No, cuz the frames are $3,000.
Yeah, exactly. But Canyon and the big box names like Specialized Track actually do have some really competitive
complete bikes in that price point. So, I don't know if I had 2,900 bucks, this would definitely be on my short list of
bikes probably. Yep. So, but yeah, that's a good modern bike and there's plenty of them. But, uh,
ride it and then love it and then eventually realize you want to get something even nicer and then you end up
in a whole new world of choices because then there's a lot more fancy bikes once you get above 7,000.
But yeah, nice. I can't believe how long that bike is. All right. Should we
Let's say one more, but I'm going to skip that one and go to this one because I like it better. And oh, one's named
Matt, one's named Mike. I thought they're both Mike for a sec. All right, dudes. I put down a deposit to join an
all- mountain rides in the Dolommites in 2026. Plan on taking my own bike. What tires
would you recommend? Would inserts be a good idea? Also, what bike would do good over there? I'm open to buying a new rig
for this trip. Any other tips would be appreciated. I like his style, Mike. Yeah,
he's doing it right. New bike, new tires, and going to Dmit. And going to the Dolommites. Yeah. Yeah, he's doing something right. Um, well, we
went on that trip and might go on it again. Might go on it again in 2026. Might see
you there, Mike. Might not. Um, any trail bike's good there. Like
130 rear travel to 150. I don't know if you need more than like a 150 rear travel bike. You don't really need a full enduro bike.
You spend like a day or two in Vafasa, which is like the proper EWS trails. Um,
couple of the trails you'll be like, "Well, I could really use a full-blown enduro bike." But a lot of the other stuff, a 130 bike is a 140 bike. Yeah.
Like if I were to go again, I'd bring him a 130ish bike. 140 bike. Yeah. Jared rode. He had the Druid when
he was out there. Yeah, that was a perfect bike out there. I had a Revel Rail 29. And what did you have? Banshee.
Banshee Titan. Banshee. Yep. Um Yeah. So, anything in that range
would be good. I don't know what you have, but uh tirewise uh if you're going to go like a Maxis, I
would do like kind of the combo that we love to run is uh as a guy in the front,
Maxis, Asai, Exo Plus with Max Grip. Oh, really? You wouldn't You wouldn't go heavier than that like or you wouldn't
go downhill tires or anything? I'd do double down in the rear. Okay. I think that's exactly what I did, right? Exo plus in the front and then
double down on the back. Maybe you might have been like double downs are too heavy, man. I think I did it for that one. And I was
glad I did cuz there's just so many loose small boulders. There's a lot of loose tire casing is
nice. And depending on how you ride, like for us, we can do EXO plus front as a guy, max grip, DHR, two rear, double down
casing, max terra. Um, you're not going to smoke a tire in a week with Max Terra there, but the double down's nice. If
you're going to like want to charge it and maybe you have like a bit more flats, then I'd throw double down in the
front. And again, if you're pinched flat a lot or dent your rim a lot, then yeah, an
insert in the rear could be a good idea. I don't think it's needed if you have a double down, but that's kind of like a
how is Mike riding? And is there a lot of pedaling over there, dude? Not cuz you're taking the gondlas everywhere, right?
Yeah. Gondas I think of the week we were there, we did 7,000 ft of climbing total
and like 70,000 ft of descent. The numbers were crazy. Yeah. I think I would just run downhill.
Well, the trails aren't like they're not super steep or anything. Yeah, like you might you might lose some
of the fun on some of those trails. Yeah. Like it might be you might be too too uh muted. Yeah, they're like a lot of traversy
stuff. Down tires do do that. They make make everything a bit boring and muted. Yeah. So, like
I go double downs front and rear if you're worried about flatting. Um if not, EXO plus front will be will be
nice. But yeah, we did 3,000 of that fet of climbing on the first day and then like smoked everybody. Yeah, we we
talked to the guide and we were like, "Oh, let's adjust this a little bit. Maybe a little bit less hiking trails, a little bit less pedaling." He's like, "Yeah, okay. No problem."
Yeah, there is definitely a lot of cool sort of, you know, adventure type riding you can do out there, which is not on
purpose-built mountain bike trails. It's on old sheep trails way high alpine in the mountains.
Yeah. Weird Euro stuff and and weird old goat trails and so hiking trails. Like there there's a lot of that type of
riding which is actually really cool to do because of the places and the views and the scenery that you get to. Um, and
then of course there is some proper purpose-built mountain bike stuff, but that trip includes a good mixture of both of it. Um, yeah, it was so fun.
That is one of the most beautiful areas ever to ride. But yeah, when I mean it's the Italian Alps, like is what the brand
is good and it's as good as it lives up to when you say it's the Italian Alps. Like no, no, it's it's really good. Like
it's incredible. Um, good segue though because uh, yeah, we're we're uh doing a
little bit more of a partnership with Phil at All Mountain Rides for next year and we're going to be on pretty much all the trips or one one or all of us or a
few of us, who knows? But he's going to do Tasmania twice um, in April next
year. So, back toback trips. Um, which I love Tasmania. I think I'm going to go back to one of those cuz I had so much
fun there. The Dolommites one in 26 is September 3rd or sorry September 6th to the 13th. Um and then a Nepal trip uh
which is going to be uh late October into early November. Yeah. So and that's an 11-day crazy endurance.
Pretty keen on the Nepal one. Yeah, that sounds rad. And maybe the Dolommites, but we'll we'll work out details and like get up
an official page soon and stuff. Yeah. So, anyways, we're we're now going to be able to offer basically a discount
to any WC MTB podcast listeners um for any all mountain rides trip. Um and uh
yeah, it's rad. And we're going to be on the trips and yeah, I'm stoked cuz Phil is just the coolest guy ever and he's he's so good at putting on these amazing
mountain bike trips. It's like we should definitely just collaborate with him more often and create rat trips and go
on fun trips with cool people like we've been doing. But, um just double down on it for 2026. So yeah, if you're
interested in Tasmania or the Italian Alps or Nepal, um yeah, stay stay tuned
cuz there'll be links shortly for that. Um it's a good reason to listen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, maybe by the
time this goes live, we could just put put the link in there. Um and the discount for uh you know, MTB podcast
listeners. But yeah, speaking of which too, if you do listen to the podcast, you make it to the end episode, you
pretty much get 10% off basically anything there is on the World Bite Cycling site with the MTB Podcast 10
discount code. That code is MTB Podcast 10.
Have at it. Buy some things. Get a discount. Thank you. We appreciate We appreciate your support.
Yeah. Um, that's it. That's all. That's it. Thanks for listening. All right. You made it this far. Now go ride some
bikes. We love you. See you next time. Bye.
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